Southwest to buy AirTran...

[Dude]

Eh, I would say I've mellowed on the idea. Certainly wouldn't have been my first choice,

PCL,

What would have been your first choice? Just curious.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

What would have been your first choice? Just curious.

I always wanted an Alaska/AirTran combination. I think Delta will be the inevitable merger for Alaska, though.

 

[Dude]

Fair enough.

 

[GuppyWN]

Interesting thread. Very interesting in that one of the AAI MEC favors DOH. Right PCL?

Gup

 

[RedDogC130]

Interesting thread. Very interesting in that one of the AAI MEC favors DOH. Right PCL?

Gup

As long as there is a big ratio. Straight doh is still not good enough for me to seem fair


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[kwick]

At least DOH, with fences to protect
Seats and domiciles, is a step in the
Right direction.

 

[ASADFW7]

Whatever happens after the transaction is complete SWAPA pilots have fleet protections what does Airtran have?

Lets say SWA adds 20 B717 to their fleet, do you think SWAPA guys will train on them or the B737 will be transferred to SWA to keep training at a minimum?

 

[RedDogC130]

Another thing...these airtran people are getting a 7.5% increase in hourly per diem. That has got to be worth something in the negotiations. They are making some $$ when you take into account our food/drink discounts.

 

[Kharma Police]

Another thing...these airtran people are getting a 7.5% increase in hourly per diem. That has got to be worth something in the negotiations. They are making some $$ when you take into account our food/drink discounts.

Very true, however the arbitrators will have to factor in the big hit we will take when we have to buy the Southwest "Members Only" Fonzi Jacket and American Flag ties.

 

[U2DRVR]

Very true, however the arbitrators will have to factor in the big hit we will take when we have to buy the Southwest "Members Only" Fonzi Jacket and American Flag ties.

Those things are optional...save your money and go for the blazer and hat instead. You'll definitely be the BMOC then! Trust me...it'll look good on you

 

[PCL_128]

Interesting thread. Very interesting in that one of the AAI MEC favors DOH. Right PCL?

Gup

I don't know what the MEC favors, but it doesn't really matter, since the MEC doesn't have anything to do with SLI. They get briefed, but they don't give direction or get involved in the strategy. That's all up to the Merger Committee. ALPA does things differently than SWAPA.

 

[Kharma Police]

Those things are optional...save your money and go for the blazer and hat instead. You'll definitely be the BMOC then! Trust me...it'll look good on you

Thanks homeboy! Since you spent most of your adult life in the military, I'm sure you are a snappy dresser! Do the U2 guys wear ascots too?!?! Awesome pictures on your web site, very cool!

 

[Dolce]

PCL,
Get used to how SWAPA does things because I doubt ALPA won't be influencing you too much longer!

KP,
We do wear ascots and smoking jackets as we drink Johnny Blue. BTW, we also speak through a stiff jaw and clenched teeth...old boy!

D

 

[scoreboardII]

While wearing new Balance shoes to the bar.

 

[ivauir]

I don't know what the MEC favors, but it doesn't really matter, since the MEC doesn't have anything to do with SLI. They get briefed, but they don't give direction or get involved in the strategy. That's all up to the Merger Committee. ALPA does things differently than SWAPA.

Very different.

From a recent boxstuffer:

Process Agreement:
The procedure for SWAPA and ALPA to negotiate an integrated seniority list. This agreement is specific to our seniority integration talks and will not be affected by value extended to Southwest Airlines pilots in the Transition Agreement.

But your "transition team" (which has MEC members on it) is going to Process Agreement meetings? Apparently ALL of them?

I bet Steve Chase isn't going to any of the process agreement meetings.

From SWAPA VP:

The SWAPA NC and the AirTran Merger Committee seem to agree on the process of negotiating the SLI, but their Transition Team expressed a desire to address some of their transitional issues with AirTran/Southwest Airlines prior to our teams meeting again.

From ALPA:

"Members of the ATN MEC Merger Committee (MC) and Transition Team met again in Dallas on January 25-26 with members of the SWAPA Negotiations, Merger & Acquisition Committee. The purpose of the meetings was to close three remaining gaps in Process Agreement language. Substantial progress was made on these issues.

Disagreement remains on the critical issue of completing an operational merger within a specified time. As such, both sides agreed to defer further discussion. In the meantime, we will work instead to arrange a meeting between SWAPA, ALPA, and the managements of AirTran and Southwest, with the goal of concluding work on a Process Agreement; reaching a common understanding of the merger process; and discussing Transition Agreements to protect the interests of AirTran and Southwest pilots during the period between the Date of Corporate Closing (DOCC) and an operational merger of the two carriers. The MEC will have additional information on plans for those meetings, coming soon."

I've been ALPA; I can read between the lines.

 

[FDJ2]

PCL,
Get used to how SWAPA does things because I doubt ALPA won't be influencing you too much longer!

Get use to change Dolce, because the "new" SWA wont be like the old.

 

[Dolce]

FDJ2,
Are you telling me something new? Things at "good ole Southwestern Trailways" have been changing for the worse the last 5+ years!

D

 

[waveflyer]

FDJ2,
Are you telling me something new? Things at "good ole Southwestern Trailways" have been changing for the worse the last 5+ years!

D

Yeah, it's awful here!!!!

 

[Dolce]

Wave,
Why don't you use the standard everything's great koolie response and tell me to go work somewhere else! You must have your head buried in the sand if you think every thing's good at SWA (i.e. discipline, downgrades, prolonged negotiations, etc.).

D

 

[waveflyer]

Bc that's not my point, D.
And I've worked at 5 airlines not named southwest- so the problems we do have... Excuse me for thinking are pretty well drummed up and petty. Actually- they're relative.
I don't judge you for pointing out the changes- Ive already seen some counter culture parts of flight ops- but I don't support the cool guy factor that says one must b/tch about every little problem when i know how hard I worked and how much politics I negotiated in the business world for $80k- and how much more problems I saw get self created at other places by pilot groups who looked down on anyone who dared to be happy with their job-
It is possible to hold two thoughts in mind at the same time- but I just haven't seen much to complain about here...
As much as I don't like usapa- talk to one of their 20 year junior FOs who used to be captains before b/tching about a few downgrades- or one of their Airbus captains who make far less than our FOs

"perspective. Use it or lose it." - Richard Bach

 

[SKC]

It is possible to hold two thoughts in mind at the same time- but I just haven't seen much to complain about here...

This isn't the perfect company but it's about as close to it as you'll find in this industry for what I do (dx). We have a great schedule, have reached the end of a 12 year union contract and STILL make more than the vast majority of other legacy/major carrier DX offices.

 

[jonjuan]

Yeah, it's awful here!!!!

and out come the apologists. :uzi:

 

[Lear70]

and out come the apologists. :uzi:

God forbid, differing opinions on Flightinfo. Sacrilege! Lol...

 

[Dolce]

It sucks when you post on a forum because you have to explain every post down to the minutiae to appease everyone! I like working for SWA...pay, schedule and benefits which are the best in the industry. But Herb isn't running our airline anymore...It's an accountant who seem to be looking for that magic number of 15% ROIC. Did you ever read the "scoreboard" in luvlines...it was demoralizing reading, after the first quarter, we were not going to reach the target numbers for the year. Who thought that was a good idea? When I watch the propaganda machine telling me our stock will be 20-22 dollars a share again, Hawaii(?) and massive growth are coming (Torti)...I just shake my head and laugh. I guess we really purchased AAI to get their IT department so we could operate outside our continental borders...that and their aircraft can also fly to locations with foreign ICAOs. Can a company apologist explain the RX program and how it actually helped SWA besides cutting cost...which now is questionable! I like Denver, but I avoid it like the plague! I really enjoyed the RNAV/RNP training. Now I need to bid to LBB or OKC to get ready for the check ride since those procedures are so widely used in our system or much less anywhere! Better yet, I can always practice on our training website via computer! I think I would have preferred ETOPS training because Torti and our NC said we were eventually going to Hawaii! Let me suffer emotionally and financially for a month or more because of a decision made by the Captain. Let's quit using judgement and waste deicing fluid because everyone is now gun-shy! Did I just see a snow flake or what is the guy next door doing because he may be a check airman?
My point we are starting to slowly turn into those other carriers and people don't want to admit or acknowledge that fact! I get first hand information from management pilots who talk of tribalism (e.g. OCC) and protectionism within SWA. Too many yes-men (Peter Principle) looking out for their positions instead of what's good for the whole. Where else can a ramper become a V.P., but this is SWA and America right? Did I mention the OCC and a certain employee group and the perceived encroachment on their jobs instead of what's good for the operation! Why would you want some pilots possibly "advising" others on what's maybe going on in the cockpit and the pilots
thought processes? I guess I'm just a " negative Nelly" glass is half-empty a$$hole, but GMAFB when I refuse to blindly walk to the stand to get my dose of the grape flavored koolaid! I'm here for the SWA, but all is not well and we may end up like one of those 5 airlines where Waveflyer was previously employed!

D

 

[waveflyer]

If we were at united- I'd be with you.

But please dont confuse southwest with other sh/tty places to work-
This place is a better place to work bc mgmt buys into a LOT of people oriented concepts that most corporations do not- and they put their money where their mouth is-
Every other airline did furlough in 2008-2009: they chose not to

Am I NOT supposed to be loyal now?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

My point we are starting to slowly turn into those other carriers and people don't want to admit or acknowledge that fact! I get first hand information from management pilots who talk of tribalism (e.g. OCC) and protectionism within SWA. Too many yes-men (Peter Principle) looking out for their positions instead of what's good for the whole. Where else can a ramper become a V.P., but this is SWA and America right? Did I mention the OCC and a certain employee group and the perceived encroachment on their jobs instead of what's good for the operation! Why would you want some pilots possibly "advising" others on what's maybe going on in the cockpit and the pilots
thought processes? I guess I'm just a " negative Nelly" glass is half-empty a$$hole, but GMAFB when I refuse to blindly walk to the stand to get my dose of the grape flavored koolaid! I'm here for the SWA, but all is not well and we may end up like one of those 5 airlines where Waveflyer was previously employed!

D

WOW! Finally, a realistic prespective minus the pompous ass attitude!
Bravo D!:beer:

 

[Dolce]

Wave,
We could be headed in that direction...it's a very slippery slope! I know we didn't furlough in 2008-2009, but how would that go over with the slow-rolling of contract negotiations and please don't tell me management wasn't doing that either! People oriented concepts? Mandatory doubles for rampers because of the RX program and no manning. Is management actually listening to it's people in the field or it's managers in the GO? I specifically asked the CEO this during a visit to our base...wasnt impressed with his lack of an answer. It was nothing more than management speak! Spoke with CM during "round table" discussions. My impression was he cared and was glad what the pilots were passing to management, but that maybe it had little affect because management was committed to the process of picking the low-lying fruit at all cost. Things are changing in this mature company and I care about my future and those I work with...even if the feeling is not mutual by those who are just happy with their station at SWA.

D

 

[johnsonrod]

It sucks when you post on a forum because you have to explain every post down to the minutiae to appease everyone! I like working for SWA...pay, schedule and benefits which are the best in the industry. But Herb isn't running our airline anymore...It's an accountant who seem to be looking for that magic number of 15% ROIC. Did you ever read the "scoreboard" in luvlines...it was demoralizing reading, after the first quarter, we were not going to reach the target numbers for the year. Who thought that was a good idea? When I watch the propaganda machine telling me our stock will be 20-22 dollars a share again, Hawaii(?) and massive growth are coming (Torti)...I just shake my head and laugh. I guess we really purchased AAI to get their IT department so we could operate outside our continental borders...that and their aircraft can also fly to locations with foreign ICAOs. Can a company apologist explain the RX program and how it actually helped SWA besides cutting cost...which now is questionable! I like Denver, but I



avoid it like the plague! I really enjoyed the RNAV/RNP training. Now I need to bid to LBB or OKC to get ready for the check ride since those procedures are so widely used in our system or much less anywhere! Better yet, I can always practice on our training website via computer! I think I would have preferred ETOPS training because Torti and our NC said we were eventually going to Hawaii! Let me suffer emotionally and financially for a month or more because of a decision made by the Captain. Let's quit using judgement and waste deicing fluid because everyone is now gun-shy! Did I just see a snow flake or what is the guy next door doing because he may be a check airman?
My point we are starting to slowly turn into those other carriers and people don't want to admit or acknowledge that fact! I get first hand information from management pilots who talk of tribalism (e.g. OCC) and protectionism within SWA. Too many yes-men (Peter Principle) looking out for their positions instead of what's good for the whole. Where else can a ramper become a V.P., but this is SWA and America right? Did I mention the OCC and a certain
employee group and the perceived encroachment on their jobs instead of what's good for the operation! Why would you want some pilots possibly "advising" others on what's maybe going on in the cockpit and the pilots
thought processes? I guess I'm just a " negative Nelly" glass is half-empty a$$hole, but GMAFB when I refuse to blindly walk to the stand to get my dose of the grape flavored koolaid! I'm here for the SWA, but all is not well and we may end up like one of those 5 airlines where Waveflyer was previously employed!


D

Where is General Lee? He would be applauding your honesty and lack of cockiness! Good for you, let the truth cleanse your soul.

 

[johnsonrod]

Wave,
We could be headed in that direction...it's a very slippery slope! I know we didn't furlough in 2008-2009, but how would that go over with the slow-rolling of contract negotiations and please don't tell me management wasn't doing that either! People oriented concepts? Mandatory doubles for rampers because of the RX program and no manning. Is management actually listening to it's people in the field or it's managers in the GO? I specifically asked the CEO this during a visit to our base...wasnt impressed with his lack of an answer. It was nothing more than management speak! Spoke with CM during "round table" discussions. My impression was he cared and was glad what the pilots were passing to management, but that maybe it had little affect because management was committed to the process of picking the low-lying fruit at all cost. Things are changing in this mature company and I care about my future and those I work with...even if the feeling is not mutual by those who are just happy with their station at SWA.


D

I have figured out who you are! You are Julian Asange, the founder of Wikileaks! Good for you finally bringing out the truth to the public.

 

[Full of LUV]

I have figured out who you are! You are Julian Asange, the founder of Wikileaks! Good for you finally bringing out the truth to the public.

I fear for Dolce's safety. This is akin to drawing a Islam cartoon in a public paper, for such heresy he will have to be hunted down and slaughtered in the name of the firm, SWA.