Southwest slam clicks- c'mon captains....

[redflyer65]

You guys are completely delusion with this argument. I guess you still can't answer the question. It would be similar to a SW Captain making 200/hr in Sept 2010, and then getting a 30/hr pay raise two months later, then saying he was making 230/hr in Sept because that's what he should have made. That's your argument in a nutshell, and it's bizarre.

It could be 10 years from now and your Sept 2010 rates would still be 79 and 152 respectively when SW stepped in. It's tough to re-write history.

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys are completely delusion with this argument. I guess you still can't answer the question. It would be similar to a SW Captain making 200/hr in Sept 2010, and then getting a 30/hr pay raise two months later, then saying he was making 230/hr in Sept because that's what he should have made. That's your argument in a nutshell, and it's bizarre.

It could be 10 years from now and your Sept 2010 rates would still be 79 and 152 respectively when SW stepped in. It's tough to re-write history.

Actually, thinking that our 2001 pay rates could be on effect 23 years later is a textbook example of delusional thinking.

You do realize we were offered those rates prior to the merger announcement and rejected them, right?

 

[waveflyer]

Actually, thinking that our 2001 pay rates could be on effect 23 years later is a textbook example of delusional thinking.

You do realize we were offered those rates prior to the merger announcement and rejected them, right?

I know you guys like to say that...
:-/

 

[waveflyer]

It's a pay cut. It doesn't matter what he made 3 years ago or 3 days ago. The day he crosses the partition he will bring home less $. That is what a pay cut is. It doesn't matter how or why we got a new contract 4 years ago. Sorry you can't look past 2010.

You wish that reality wasn't what it has been bc it doesn't help your argument-
Swa got you your current rates .
Sorry you don't like that-

Your rates at the time of the announcement are all that matters bc that was what REALITY you had.

 

[waveflyer]

What do you say to someone that's going from 182/hr to whatever 14 year FO pay is over there? Try and look forward with your comments. If you need a slap on the back for what happened in the past I'll give you one. Thanks for buying us and seeing that we got a fair contract... That's old news now. Move forward. What do you say and how do you rationalize that its not a paycut for someone with that longevity. Real numbers...Not some what might happen BS. The day I show up for training, and for the foreseeable future, my family will be making substantially less than we are today.

RV

If you are, then you are trying to make less to justify your own pity party

 

[twepilot]

Pity party???!!!Are you effn CRAZY?!! I don't want any pity from anyone! TRYING TO MAKE LESS....You are an idiot! Nevermind the facts damn the torpedoes!

RV

 

[twepilot]

Redflyer, again I say thanks for buying us...I'm sure you had a lot to do with the transaction and we owe you an immense debt of gratitude.....Or....maybe your God complex has completely warped your ability to reason and evaluate facts and make judgements and decisions. Hope we meet one day.

RV

 

[SWA Bubba]

Man!

One stupid-ass comment from PCL, and everyone gets all spooled up again over things that have been argued about since day one of the merger. Surely, people will change their minds this time!

PCL is apparently the undisputed master at spinning people up. This is an example of a game my psychologist sister-in-law would call, "let's you and he fight."

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, that's right, it's my fault. It couldn't possibly be that you and your company massively raped our pilot group and now choose to rub our faces in it while expecting us to be grateful.

 

[redflyer65]

Redflyer, again I say thanks for buying us...I'm sure you had a lot to do with the transaction and we owe you an immense debt of gratitude.....Or....maybe your God complex has completely warped your ability to reason and evaluate facts and make judgements and decisions. Hope we meet one day.

RV

There's no 'God complex' or need to be thanked RV. It's over and done. I just don't like revisionist history were you want people to believe you were making more than 79 and 152, because you weren't.

Should you have been making more? Absolutely. Should you have had SW payrates immediately and kept CA seats? Absolutely. But none of that happened did it?

 

[PCL_128]

red, you just need to go f#ck yourself. Those rates were already turned down previously because they weren't sufficient. They were accepted after the merger announcement only because the NMB made clear that they weren't going to interfere with a merger transaction. If it wasn't for your airline's interference in our negotiations, we'd be making a lot more money, not less. Stop patting yourself on the back for the pay rates we got. We're not thrilled with them, so if you deserve anything, it's blame and not credit.

 

[waveflyer]

You're absolutely right bubba
My bad for taking the bait

 

[funnyman12]

Airtran pilots voted down a TA in 2007 that had captains making $186/hr ($205/trip) by 2012. Obviously the other aspects of the TA were unacceptable but to suggest SW was responsible for the current contract is wrong. It actually forced us to accept a subpar contract so we could focus on the integration. In fact, a vast majority of our current contract was TA'd prior to the announcement.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yes, that's right, it's my fault. It couldn't possibly be that you and your company massively raped our pilot group and now choose to rub our faces in it while expecting us to be grateful.

I'm not saying it's your fault that the SLI went the way it did. Trust me, there's lots of fault there. Nice deflection.

What I AM saying is that it's your fault that this same stupid argument gets churned up again on this board. None of us can change any of this, and eventually people on both sides calm down, realize that, and start to move forward. But since you can't have that, you have to spin people up again, sow discontent, and stoke the same fight all over again. A former AirTran guy posts that he likes it over here, so you have to respond with inane and made-up anecdotes of how Southwest FAs, and now captains, are all asses who look down on former AirTran people. I suppose that if the groups actually got along, that would tend to disprove your all-things-Southwest-suck missive you've been pushing this whole time.

Why is that, PCL? I mean you've made it clear that you're not even coming over to this side, so why do you care if the groups get along, or God-forbid even worse, a FAT guy actually likes it over here? Man, that really gets your goat, doesn't it? What are you going to do next year by this time?--you know, when AirTran is no longer, and you personally are no longer in the industry? Who will you bitch about then?

Enjoy it now, because your days of being a professional rabble rouser (and ass) are coming to an end!

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Bubba, to paraphrase Adlai Stevenson, if you stop telling lies about us, I'll stop telling the truth about you.

 

[redflyer65]

And the truth is the AAI captain rate wasn't 186/hr in Sept 2010, regardless of your struggle with management and the accompanying stiff arm.

And by far, the majority of the FAT guys I've come across do like it over here. But again, that doesn't fit into PCL's mantra. You know, the one that can't stand anything SW related. Might be best for all involved for him selling single-wides.

 

[scoreboardII]

Good money in that I hear, just follow the tornadoes.

 

[twepilot]

You still talking about what WAS??? The reality is the here and now and what's happening moving forward. You are nothing but a lot of hot air dude. You've become nothing more than a "I remember when" loser.

You want to put your money where your mouth is?

RV

 

[redflyer65]

You still talking about what WAS??? The reality is the here and now and what's happening moving forward. You are nothing but a lot of hot air dude. You've become nothing more than a "I remember when" loser.

You want to put your money where your mouth is?

RV

Dude, it's called the facts. I'm sorry if that bothers you. You want to spin it as AirTran was a top tier carrier with great wages (186), then go for it. I'm done talking about it. Your slant on the wages can't change the cold, hard facts.

Money where your mouth is? Talk to me goose.

 

[waveflyer]

So umm, about those beers at night

Still be stepping all over myself to pick up the tab. We can heal what we can and get over what we can't given time and hopefully a good amount of growth

 

[twepilot]

Well as for AirTran being a top tier airline...You just never know what ya had til its gone...Additionally, we kicked your asses performance wise and still are. You guys are a LONG way from the triple crown days and as far as I can see the slide is accelerating . 186/hr..Yeah I was happy with that.

Here's the bet blow hard..
You don't think its a paycut for someone of my longevity?
we'll compare my w2, (Box 1) from either 2013 or 2014 your choice, to my w2, (Box1) of 2015 and if its less than 2013 or 2014 you pony up and pay me the difference.
In turn, if I make more in 2015 I'll double what the difference is and write you a check.

Put your money where your mouth is windbag.

RV

 

[waveflyer]

Can you guys source these great rates that you had turned down already?

Do you not get that, if true, those rates came with other work rules or give backs that made you vote them down so that weakens the context in any case?
Do you see that?

The rates that matter are your actual rates-
You clearly haven't transition tough guy, so why are you so opinionated about something that hasn't happened yet

 

[twepilot]

I'm sick and tired about some ass saying its not a paycut...simple...Lots of guys are getting raises, for a few its a wash, a lot of others are getting a paycut...simple...

I don't ordinarily argue about stuff like this. SWA was the "hometown" airline for me for most of my adult life. I have a lot of friends there that have said good things through the years. Its just kind of a bummer to lose my seat, my base and my pay. In the long run, it'll probably be a good thing. The "long run" is going to be a different time period to different people. The guys that will never upgrade (or re-upgrade) the long run is the never-ending tunnel with just a glimmer of light in the distance. To the super senior guys that will re-upgrade early next year its merely a thorn in the side that will quickly be excised. In my case, I'm near the super senior side of things but I won't re-upgrade if I have to commute.

RV

 

[PCL_128]

Do you not get that, if true, those rates came with other work rules or give backs that made you vote them down so that weakens the context in any case?
Do you see that?

No give backs, but it didn't contain other gains that we expected. But we still didn't end up with many of those, either, because again, we had to cave after the NMB decided that they weren't going to cause any problems for a pending merger transaction.

 

[waveflyer]

Fair enough RV
I can see that

 

[waveflyer]

Source PCL?

 

[PCL_128]

Source PCL?

Ask me after I resign.

 

[waveflyer]

Why would that matter.

Make the claim, especially as often as you guys do-
Back it up

 

[orangebellyav8r]

I'm sick and tired about some ass saying its not a paycut...simple...Lots of guys are getting raises, for a few its a wash, a lot of others are getting a paycut...simple

RV

Then leave ASS.........We didn't want you and we don't need you...

 

[redflyer65]

Here's the bet blow hard..
You don't think its a paycut for someone of my longevity?
we'll compare my w2, (Box 1) from either 2013 or 2014 your choice, to my w2, (Box1) of 2015 and if its less than 2013 or 2014 you pony up and pay me the difference.
In turn, if I make more in 2015 I'll double what the difference is and write you a check.

Put your money where your mouth is windbag.

RV

You mean bet you that your NEW payrates are more than what you'll get when you transition? Was would that prove? You've been paid by Southwest Airlines starting May 2nd, 2011. The discussion is about what you were being paid prior to Southwest even being in the picture. And better yet, I wish ALPA would have voted the first agreement in. You would have had our payrates immediately and kept your CA seat. I never dreamed you'd lose your seat and I've never said that was a good thing.

The bottom line is this.....your pay increased 30+/hr from 2010 to 2011 after SW stepped in. I understand it was to clean the books up and make it happen. So I'm not looking for any kudos there. Will you lose from your new SW payrates 2014 to the transition year of 2015? Probably if your a CA. No way if your an FO. But those aren't baseline AirTran rates anyway. Sorry.