scoreboardII
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And apparently its OK with the military as well. I'm not sure as I've been out ten years.
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ron burgundy
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You people are amazing! Regardless of the..airline,number of incident/accidents,cause of them,Era of operation,etc. It is still about..MY AIRLINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! As a result of the aforementioned, Lives were lost,careers lost, families changed forever. Hundreds of thousands of lives affected.Yet,still..you have the mindset that.. "I am worried that mine is smaller than everybody else..Therefore,my airline,airplane,watch,house,portfolio,pool,car and even my Dad... is bigger than yours !. Did I mention that I have a super hot wife,awesome girlfriend and my kids are super intelligent? Smarter than yours I'm sure".
You a$$clowns are spending time researching stuff that happened 5-10- 20-30 yrs ago..in order to prove who is better.
You wanna know who is better...The person with nothing to prove! He/she focuses on doing their job and living a life on their days off. BTW...They are better than me. They probably don't subscribe to this Donkeyshow!
say again
I love her ARSE!!!!
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waveflyer
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Probably not lecturing said donkeys how subscribers either- pot meet kettle-
As long as we can agree we're a combined very safe country. And please know we're as safe as our weakest links
As long as we can agree we're a combined very safe country. And please know we're as safe as our weakest links
Sparse
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I remember an FO looked back at me on the engineer panel of a DC-8 after this happened, and he said, "I exceeded his ability to recover".
Ty Webb
Hostage to Fortune
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Yup. They're afraid that the other Pilot is going to put them in a situation that they can't recover from. . . . and instead, provide a "solution" that is worse than the problem.
I remember flying as FO with an old, former EAL Capt :erm: who would "recover" from every one of my landings at about 100 KIAS, saying, "I'll save us!" as he stomped on the brakes in a very jarring and uneven manner, spoiling every one of my landings with a ridiculously spastic rollout, convincing me that he either had a club foot, or some sort of palsy.
This same clown would tell me, at random intervals throughout the trip, "You know, you really ought to consider moving to Atlanta". . . as if, somehow, his Captaincy also conferred upon him some sort of omniscient knowledge about my life.
A few years later, another Capt asked me how I like flying with that guy. When I remarked about his strange, unsolicited advice about moving to Atlanta, this guy cracked up, saying, "He's giving advice? That guy lived at home with his mother until he was over forty years old and only moved out when he finally got married!". :laugh:
Last edited:
slaquer5
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Glad to see the scab moved out of his mothers basement.
I am betting his wife is shagging everything she can get when he is gone .
Kuma
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I apologize for not being more clear. My point, is that you can use statistics to support any claim you want...if you are creative enough. That website chose a technique that makes Hawaiian look bad (or at least average).
Sure, I am proud of my airline. I've been to ground school where we go through previous accidents/incidents and study how not to put ourselves in that position. We have had very few, and the severity on them has been slight.
I look around me and I see professionals doing the job professionally, and it makes me wonder how this website can mark us down in this category.
So when I did my own research, I posted the results. If you, ron, want to refute them, then have at it.
In the end, my airline is not better than yours, it is simply well run by professionals. They are good at what they do and they do not deserve to be disenfranchised by some website stating mishap statistics that are statistically irrelevant.
~Kuma
Jim
Fly Navy!
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Ron Burgundy - Your reading comprehension sucks. Understand the context of the post before stepping up on your soap box.
"My airline is better than yours" wasn't the reason for that list of Hawaiian accidents/incidents. A poster referenced a website that said Hawaiian averaged 3 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs over a 5 year period. As a Hawaiian pilot since 2001 I questioned this as the last accident I knew of was in 2000 (DC-10 runway overrun in Tahiti). The methodolgy of getting this figure was explained in a subsequent response and the accident/incident post was actually enlightening as it showed me such things as a FA getting injured due to unexpected turbulence was listed by the NTSB as an accident.
So this was nothing but an informative post in response to my question.
ron burgundy
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Yeah..guess I just quoted the first thing I saw relevant to Aviation/accidents..Honestly, didn't even read it and the post was not directed at you specifically Kuma. My point was, the entire tone of the latter portion of this thread is..Your airline has crashed more jets than mine! It was directed at the mindset and mentality as a whole.
flyguy75000
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Didn't an anal-retentive, perfect landing captain also cause this one in SJU as well?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1t-sNm_ST0ell?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1t-sNm_ST0ell?
ironspud
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- Feb 26, 2005
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August 21, 2013, 10:10 p.m. ET
Pilot's Actions In July Crash Face Review
Pilot May Have Throttled Back Engine Too Soon, People Familiar With Inquiry Say
By ANDY PASZTOR
Seconds before the botched landing of a Southwest Airlines Inc. jet last month at New York's La Guardia Airport, the captain was concerned about touching down too far along the runway and may have throttled back the engines prematurely, according to people familiar with the investigation.
The preliminary indications of what led the aircraft to land on its nosegear, causing it to collapse and substantially damaging the Boeing 737, still have to be validated by investigators, these officials said.
The National Transportation Safety Board previously said the captain, in an unusual move, abruptly took over control at an altitude of about 400 feet. But the probe's latest focus appears to provide the strongest explanation yet for why she opted to suddenly take over from the first officer, and how a routine approach turned into a high-profile crash that temporarily closed the airport.
Ten of the 149 people aboard were hurt in the July 22 incident. The flight took off from Nashville, Tenn., that afternoon.
The nose of the plane pitched down during the last four seconds of the approach, when it should have remained slightly raised.
When the plane landed, the top of the landing gear, with only the right axle still attached, penetrated up through the floor of the bay, into an area holding electronic systems that help with operation and navigation of the plane.
Investigators have found no engine or other airplane malfunctions to account for the maneuver.
The NTSB is particularly interested in the captain's flight-control commands and her interaction with the first officer during the final 100 feet of the descent before the crash.
Southwest hasn't found any similar accident scenarios in previous years and has concluded the La Guardia crash doesn't pose any systemic hazards, Timothy Logan, the airline's top flight risk-management official, told an industry conference Wednesday in Vancouver.
The safety board hasn't turned up any training problems or deficiencies in the employment history of the captain, a 13-year veteran who has more that 8,000 hours flying in Boeing 737s.
The captain had landed only once before at La Guardia, according to the safety board. The first officer had about 1,100 hours of experience flying 737 jets and had flown into the airport six times previously in 2013, the NTSB has said.
The probe has been delayed partly because the pilots weren't interviewed until about a week after the accident.
The investigation is further complicated by the fact that both the captain and first officer filed reports about what happened under the airline's nonpunitive, voluntary safety-reporting system, according to people familiar with the details. Specifics from such reports normally are off limits to federal air-safety officials and particularly regulators.
The crew was making a visual approach, had turned off automated flight-control systems at the proper time, and also was relying on an instrument-landing system as a backup.
A major question remains why the captain, once she became concerned about the safety of the approach so close to the ground, didn't follow industrywide guidance to abandon the descent and climb away from the field.
Southwest has suffered accidents over the years stemming from planes running off the ends of slick or snowy runways, but the July mishap wasn't caused by any traction or braking problems.
More recently, according to people familiar with the details of Southwest's safety programs, company experts have focused on training pilots to ensure that they reach the landing touchdown point at the proper speed.
Transferring control during the descent's final phase, by itself, may have posed procedural and teamwork challenges. There's no indication of cockpit disputes, but independent safety experts said the first officer could have been startled by the change of plans barely a few seconds before touchdown.
The safety board "is delving into details of how you actually make that transition," according to one person close the probe. The cockpit-voice recorder, this person added, shows "a lot of dynamics between the two pilots."
Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds.
Write to Andy Pasztor at [email protected]
Pilot's Actions In July Crash Face Review
Pilot May Have Throttled Back Engine Too Soon, People Familiar With Inquiry Say
By ANDY PASZTOR
Seconds before the botched landing of a Southwest Airlines Inc. jet last month at New York's La Guardia Airport, the captain was concerned about touching down too far along the runway and may have throttled back the engines prematurely, according to people familiar with the investigation.
The preliminary indications of what led the aircraft to land on its nosegear, causing it to collapse and substantially damaging the Boeing 737, still have to be validated by investigators, these officials said.
The National Transportation Safety Board previously said the captain, in an unusual move, abruptly took over control at an altitude of about 400 feet. But the probe's latest focus appears to provide the strongest explanation yet for why she opted to suddenly take over from the first officer, and how a routine approach turned into a high-profile crash that temporarily closed the airport.
Ten of the 149 people aboard were hurt in the July 22 incident. The flight took off from Nashville, Tenn., that afternoon.
The nose of the plane pitched down during the last four seconds of the approach, when it should have remained slightly raised.
When the plane landed, the top of the landing gear, with only the right axle still attached, penetrated up through the floor of the bay, into an area holding electronic systems that help with operation and navigation of the plane.
Investigators have found no engine or other airplane malfunctions to account for the maneuver.
The NTSB is particularly interested in the captain's flight-control commands and her interaction with the first officer during the final 100 feet of the descent before the crash.
Southwest hasn't found any similar accident scenarios in previous years and has concluded the La Guardia crash doesn't pose any systemic hazards, Timothy Logan, the airline's top flight risk-management official, told an industry conference Wednesday in Vancouver.
The safety board hasn't turned up any training problems or deficiencies in the employment history of the captain, a 13-year veteran who has more that 8,000 hours flying in Boeing 737s.
The captain had landed only once before at La Guardia, according to the safety board. The first officer had about 1,100 hours of experience flying 737 jets and had flown into the airport six times previously in 2013, the NTSB has said.
The probe has been delayed partly because the pilots weren't interviewed until about a week after the accident.
The investigation is further complicated by the fact that both the captain and first officer filed reports about what happened under the airline's nonpunitive, voluntary safety-reporting system, according to people familiar with the details. Specifics from such reports normally are off limits to federal air-safety officials and particularly regulators.
The crew was making a visual approach, had turned off automated flight-control systems at the proper time, and also was relying on an instrument-landing system as a backup.
A major question remains why the captain, once she became concerned about the safety of the approach so close to the ground, didn't follow industrywide guidance to abandon the descent and climb away from the field.
Southwest has suffered accidents over the years stemming from planes running off the ends of slick or snowy runways, but the July mishap wasn't caused by any traction or braking problems.
More recently, according to people familiar with the details of Southwest's safety programs, company experts have focused on training pilots to ensure that they reach the landing touchdown point at the proper speed.
Transferring control during the descent's final phase, by itself, may have posed procedural and teamwork challenges. There's no indication of cockpit disputes, but independent safety experts said the first officer could have been startled by the change of plans barely a few seconds before touchdown.
The safety board "is delving into details of how you actually make that transition," according to one person close the probe. The cockpit-voice recorder, this person added, shows "a lot of dynamics between the two pilots."
Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds.
Write to Andy Pasztor at [email protected]
LJ45
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- Posts
- 1,080
"The safety board "is delving into details of how you actually make that transition," according to one person close the probe. The cockpit-voice recorder, this person added, shows "a lot of dynamics between the two pilots."
Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds."
I wonder?....would love to see the transcripts.
Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds."
I wonder?....would love to see the transcripts.
Boy, those transcripts really are going to be interesting.
You might take note that I haven't said this was a SWA problem or a result of taxiing to fast! Sounds like whatever happened could have happened at any airline. At the risk of jumping to conclusions it sounds like piss poor CRM by the Captain.
General Lee
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- Aug 24, 2002
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