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ron burgundy

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Sorry for the formatting. I seached the NTSB database for all accidents/incidents on Hawaiian Airlines. 9 came up since 1964. I guess since we have few takeoffs compared to other airlines that one flight attendant getting hurt due to clear air turbulence in 2010 skews our numbers that much.

9 records meet your search criteria. A docket of supporting materials may exist for factual and probable cause reports. Please contact Records Management Division. Dockets are not available for preliminary reports.

Accident Database & Synopses Download XML Download Delimited Text Current SynopsisPDF Report(s)
(Published)
Event DateLocationMake/ModelRegist. NumberNTSB No.Event SeverityType of Air Carrier Operation and Carrier Name (Doing Business As) Probable Cause Factual(08/07/2012)

Probable Cause(10/04/2012)
12/3/2010Pago Pago, American Samoa BOEING 767 N584HAWPR11LA071NonfatalInternational Lease Finance Corp (DBA: Hawaiian Airlines) Probable Cause Factual(11/04/2006)

Probable Cause(01/31/2007)
1/11/2003KAHULUI, HI Boeing 717-200 N482HALAX03IA098Incident Probable Cause Factual(04/15/2003)

Probable Cause(05/30/2003)
6/14/2000Lihue, Kauai, HI McDonnell Douglas DC-9-51 N649HALAX00FA229Nonfatal Probable Cause Factual(08/22/1998)

Probable Cause(02/16/2001)
2/9/1998HONOLULU, HI McDonnell Douglas DC-9-51 N601APLAX98IA085IncidentHAWAIIAN AIRLINES, INC. (DBA: HAWAIIAN AIRLINES, INC.) Probable Cause Factual(11/12/1996)

Probable Cause(12/16/1996)
8/8/1996HONOLULU, HI Douglas DC-9-51 N420EALAX96IA300Incident Probable Cause Factual
Probable Cause(06/11/1990)
8/20/1988HONOLULU, HI MCDONNELL DOUGLAS DC9-51 N689HALAX88IA295IncidentHAWAIIAN AIRLINES, INC. Probable Cause Factual(02/06/1995)

Probable Cause(02/06/1995)
12/22/1983HONOLULU, HI de Havilland DHC 7-102 N929HALAX84LA115Nonfatal Probable Cause
1/28/1968HILO, HI CONVAIR 640 N5510KOAK68A0056Nonfatal Probable Cause
2/13/1964HILO, HI CONVAIR CV-440 N5512KUnknownNonfatal


You people are amazing! Regardless of the..airline,number of incident/accidents,cause of them,Era of operation,etc. It is still about..MY AIRLINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! As a result of the aforementioned, Lives were lost,careers lost, families changed forever. Hundreds of thousands of lives affected.Yet,still..you have the mindset that.. "I am worried that mine is smaller than everybody else..Therefore,my airline,airplane,watch,house,portfolio,pool,car and even my Dad... is bigger than yours !. Did I mention that I have a super hot wife,awesome girlfriend and my kids are super intelligent? Smarter than yours I'm sure".
You a$$clowns are spending time researching stuff that happened 5-10- 20-30 yrs ago..in order to prove who is better.

You wanna know who is better...The person with nothing to prove! He/she focuses on doing their job and living a life on their days off. BTW...They are better than me. They probably don't subscribe to this Donkeyshow!
 

say again

I love her ARSE!!!!
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You people are amazing! Regardless of the..airline,number of incident/accidents,cause of them,Era of operation,etc. It is still about..MY AIRLINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! As a result of the aforementioned, Lives were lost,careers lost, families changed forever. Hundreds of thousands of lives affected.Yet,still..you have the mindset that.. "I am worried that mine is smaller than everybody else..Therefore,my airline,airplane,watch,house,portfolio,pool,car and even my Dad... is bigger than yours !. Did I mention that I have a super hot wife,awesome girlfriend and my kids are super intelligent? Smarter than yours I'm sure".
You a$$clowns are spending time researching stuff that happened 5-10- 20-30 yrs ago..in order to prove who is better.

You wanna know who is better...The person with nothing to prove! He/she focuses on doing their job and living a life on their days off. BTW...They are better than me. They probably don't subscribe to this Donkeyshow!


Well said!!! :beer:
 

waveflyer

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Probably not lecturing said donkeys how subscribers either- pot meet kettle-

As long as we can agree we're a combined very safe country. And please know we're as safe as our weakest links

You people are amazing! Regardless of the..airline,number of incident/accidents,cause of them,Era of operation,etc. It is still about..MY AIRLINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! As a result of the aforementioned, Lives were lost,careers lost, families changed forever. Hundreds of thousands of lives affected.Yet,still..you have the mindset that.. "I am worried that mine is smaller than everybody else..Therefore,my airline,airplane,watch,house,portfolio,pool,car and even my Dad... is bigger than yours !. Did I mention that I have a super hot wife,awesome girlfriend and my kids are super intelligent? Smarter than yours I'm sure".
You a$$clowns are spending time researching stuff that happened 5-10- 20-30 yrs ago..in order to prove who is better.

You wanna know who is better...The person with nothing to prove! He/she focuses on doing their job and living a life on their days off. BTW...They are better than me. They probably don't subscribe to this Donkeyshow!
 

Sparse

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Have you ever flown with "that Captain," the one who doesn't trust you to fly the aircraft? The one who is all over the controls when you're the PF? To the point that you can't tell if anything you're feeling as you fly was 1. your own input, 2. a gust or bit of wake turbulence or 3. an input from the PNF who's "ghosting you" on the controls?

Probably most of us here have flown with this type of Captain, and if you're like me you hated every single minute of the trip and for some reason this sort of treatment makes you fly badly (just the opposite of the great Captain who treats you like he trusts you).

Have you ever flown with the extreme version of "that Captain" who will cut your flare short by pushing the yoke forward as if you had to be prevented from running the aircraft off the end of the runway?

Well, the word on the street in my neighborhood says...

I remember an FO looked back at me on the engineer panel of a DC-8 after this happened, and he said, "I exceeded his ability to recover".
 

Ty Webb

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I remember an FO looked back at me on the engineer panel of a DC-8 after this happened, and he said, "I exceeded his ability to recover".

Yup. They're afraid that the other Pilot is going to put them in a situation that they can't recover from. . . . and instead, provide a "solution" that is worse than the problem.

I remember flying as FO with an old, former EAL Capt :erm: who would "recover" from every one of my landings at about 100 KIAS, saying, "I'll save us!" as he stomped on the brakes in a very jarring and uneven manner, spoiling every one of my landings with a ridiculously spastic rollout, convincing me that he either had a club foot, or some sort of palsy.

This same clown would tell me, at random intervals throughout the trip, "You know, you really ought to consider moving to Atlanta". . . as if, somehow, his Captaincy also conferred upon him some sort of omniscient knowledge about my life.

A few years later, another Capt asked me how I like flying with that guy. When I remarked about his strange, unsolicited advice about moving to Atlanta, this guy cracked up, saying, "He's giving advice? That guy lived at home with his mother until he was over forty years old and only moved out when he finally got married!". :laugh:
 
Last edited:

slaquer5

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Yup. They're afraid that the other Pilot is going to put them in a situation that they can't recover from. . . . and instead, provide a "solution" that is worse than the problem.

I remember flying as FO with an old, former EAL Capt :erm: who would "recover" from every one of my landings at about 100 KIAS, saying, "I'll save us!" as he stomped on the brakes in a very jarring and uneven manner, spoiling every one of my landings with a ridiculously spastic rollout, convincing me that he either had two left feet or some sort of palsy.

This same clown would tell me, at random intervals throughout the trip, "You know, you really ought to consider moving to Atlanta". . . as if, somehow, his Captaincy also conferred upon him some sort of omniscient knowledge about my life.

A few years later, another Capt asked me how I like flying that guy. When I remarked about his strange, unsolicited advice about moving to Atlanta, this guy cracked up, saying, "He's giving advice? That guy lived at home with his mother until he was over forty years old and finally got married!". :laugh:

Glad to see the scab moved out of his mothers basement. :)


I am betting his wife is shagging everything she can get when he is gone .
 

Kuma

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You people are amazing! Regardless of the..airline,number of incident/accidents,cause of them,Era of operation,etc. It is still about..MY AIRLINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! As a result of the aforementioned, Lives were lost,careers lost, families changed forever. Hundreds of thousands of lives affected.Yet,still..you have the mindset that.. "I am worried that mine is smaller than everybody else..Therefore,my airline,airplane,watch,house,portfolio,pool,car and even my Dad... is bigger than yours !. Did I mention that I have a super hot wife,awesome girlfriend and my kids are super intelligent? Smarter than yours I'm sure".
You a$$clowns are spending time researching stuff that happened 5-10- 20-30 yrs ago..in order to prove who is better.

You wanna know who is better...The person with nothing to prove! He/she focuses on doing their job and living a life on their days off. BTW...They are better than me. They probably don't subscribe to this Donkeyshow!

I apologize for not being more clear. My point, is that you can use statistics to support any claim you want...if you are creative enough. That website chose a technique that makes Hawaiian look bad (or at least average).

Sure, I am proud of my airline. I've been to ground school where we go through previous accidents/incidents and study how not to put ourselves in that position. We have had very few, and the severity on them has been slight.

I look around me and I see professionals doing the job professionally, and it makes me wonder how this website can mark us down in this category.

So when I did my own research, I posted the results. If you, ron, want to refute them, then have at it.

In the end, my airline is not better than yours, it is simply well run by professionals. They are good at what they do and they do not deserve to be disenfranchised by some website stating mishap statistics that are statistically irrelevant.

~Kuma
 

Jim

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Lets actually add some data to these wild speculations. These numbers are crunched by: http://www.airline-safety-records.com/

Here is their methodology: Data for all statistics were obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration, the NTSB, and the U.S. Department of Transportation. Since some airlines fly much more often than others, a raw count of accidents, incidents, and near mid-air collisions would not give an accurate picture of how safe one airline is compared to another. Therefore all statistics are reported as a number per 1,000,000 takeoffs. For example, if an airline flew 5,000,000 takeoffs during the year and had 10 accidents it would be reported as having 2 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs. Again, if another airline flew only 500,000 takeoffs during the same year and had the same number of accidents (10 accidents) they would be reported as having 20 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs. Clearly the second airline is less safe than the first (even though they both had the same number of accidents during the year).
The limitation on the timeliness of the data provided in the tables is due to the fact that it may take several months for an aviation event to be recorded in the government's databases. Reliable data will therefore be several months old.

Here is the data:
5 Year Average
1/1/06 to 1/1/11
Accidents Per
1,000,000 T/O's

Expressjet Airlines 0
Frontier Airlines 0
Sun Country 0
Air Wisconsin 1
Alaska Airlines 1
Atlantic Southeast 1
Comair 1
Horizon 1
JetBlue Airways 1
AirTran Airways 2
Piedmont 2
Pinnacle Airlines 2
Skywest Airlines 2
Southwest Airlines 2
American Eagle Airlines 3
Continental Airlines 3
Hawaiian Airlines 3
Mesaba Airlines 3
PSA 3
American Airlines 4
Mesa Airlines 4
Trans States Airlines 5
US Airways 5
Delta 7
United 7

What are they defining as an accident? According to that site, Hawaiian had 15 acidents in 2010 and averages 3 per year. Pure bull********************. The last accident we've had was in 2000. We've never had a fatality or a hull loss.

Sorry for the formatting. I seached the NTSB database for all accidents/incidents on Hawaiian Airlines. 9 came up since 1964. I guess since we have few takeoffs compared to other airlines that one flight attendant getting hurt due to clear air turbulence in 2010 skews our numbers that much.

9 records meet your search criteria. A docket of supporting materials may exist for factual and probable cause reports. Please contact Records Management Division. Dockets are not available for preliminary reports.

Accident Database & Synopses Download XML Download Delimited Text Current SynopsisPDF Report(s)
(Published)
Event DateLocationMake/ModelRegist. NumberNTSB No.Event SeverityType of Air Carrier Operation and Carrier Name (Doing Business As) Probable Cause Factual(08/07/2012)

Probable Cause(10/04/2012)
12/3/2010Pago Pago, American Samoa BOEING 767 N584HAWPR11LA071NonfatalInternational Lease Finance Corp (DBA: Hawaiian Airlines) Probable Cause Factual(11/04/2006)

Probable Cause(01/31/2007)
1/11/2003KAHULUI, HI Boeing 717-200 N482HALAX03IA098Incident Probable Cause Factual(04/15/2003)

Probable Cause(05/30/2003)
6/14/2000Lihue, Kauai, HI McDonnell Douglas DC-9-51 N649HALAX00FA229Nonfatal Probable Cause Factual(08/22/1998)

Probable Cause(02/16/2001)
2/9/1998HONOLULU, HI McDonnell Douglas DC-9-51 N601APLAX98IA085IncidentHAWAIIAN AIRLINES, INC. (DBA: HAWAIIAN AIRLINES, INC.) Probable Cause Factual(11/12/1996)

Probable Cause(12/16/1996)
8/8/1996HONOLULU, HI Douglas DC-9-51 N420EALAX96IA300Incident Probable Cause Factual
Probable Cause(06/11/1990)
8/20/1988HONOLULU, HI MCDONNELL DOUGLAS DC9-51 N689HALAX88IA295IncidentHAWAIIAN AIRLINES, INC. Probable Cause Factual(02/06/1995)

Probable Cause(02/06/1995)
12/22/1983HONOLULU, HI de Havilland DHC 7-102 N929HALAX84LA115Nonfatal Probable Cause
1/28/1968HILO, HI CONVAIR 640 N5510KOAK68A0056Nonfatal Probable Cause
2/13/1964HILO, HI CONVAIR CV-440 N5512KUnknownNonfatal

You people are amazing! Regardless of the..airline,number of incident/accidents,cause of them,Era of operation,etc. It is still about..MY AIRLINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS! As a result of the aforementioned, Lives were lost,careers lost, families changed forever. Hundreds of thousands of lives affected.Yet,still..you have the mindset that.. "I am worried that mine is smaller than everybody else..Therefore,my airline,airplane,watch,house,portfolio,pool,car and even my Dad... is bigger than yours !. Did I mention that I have a super hot wife,awesome girlfriend and my kids are super intelligent? Smarter than yours I'm sure".
You a$$clowns are spending time researching stuff that happened 5-10- 20-30 yrs ago..in order to prove who is better.

You wanna know who is better...The person with nothing to prove! He/she focuses on doing their job and living a life on their days off. BTW...They are better than me. They probably don't subscribe to this Donkeyshow!
Ron Burgundy - Your reading comprehension sucks. Understand the context of the post before stepping up on your soap box.

"My airline is better than yours" wasn't the reason for that list of Hawaiian accidents/incidents. A poster referenced a website that said Hawaiian averaged 3 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs over a 5 year period. As a Hawaiian pilot since 2001 I questioned this as the last accident I knew of was in 2000 (DC-10 runway overrun in Tahiti). The methodolgy of getting this figure was explained in a subsequent response and the accident/incident post was actually enlightening as it showed me such things as a FA getting injured due to unexpected turbulence was listed by the NTSB as an accident.

So this was nothing but an informative post in response to my question.
 

ron burgundy

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Yeah..guess I just quoted the first thing I saw relevant to Aviation/accidents..Honestly, didn't even read it and the post was not directed at you specifically Kuma. My point was, the entire tone of the latter portion of this thread is..Your airline has crashed more jets than mine! It was directed at the mindset and mentality as a whole.
 

ironspud

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August 21, 2013, 10:10 p.m. ET

Pilot's Actions In July Crash Face Review
Pilot May Have Throttled Back Engine Too Soon, People Familiar With Inquiry Say

By ANDY PASZTOR

Seconds before the botched landing of a Southwest Airlines Inc. jet last month at New York's La Guardia Airport, the captain was concerned about touching down too far along the runway and may have throttled back the engines prematurely, according to people familiar with the investigation.

The preliminary indications of what led the aircraft to land on its nosegear, causing it to collapse and substantially damaging the Boeing 737, still have to be validated by investigators, these officials said.

The National Transportation Safety Board previously said the captain, in an unusual move, abruptly took over control at an altitude of about 400 feet. But the probe's latest focus appears to provide the strongest explanation yet for why she opted to suddenly take over from the first officer, and how a routine approach turned into a high-profile crash that temporarily closed the airport.

Ten of the 149 people aboard were hurt in the July 22 incident. The flight took off from Nashville, Tenn., that afternoon.

The nose of the plane pitched down during the last four seconds of the approach, when it should have remained slightly raised.

When the plane landed, the top of the landing gear, with only the right axle still attached, penetrated up through the floor of the bay, into an area holding electronic systems that help with operation and navigation of the plane.

Investigators have found no engine or other airplane malfunctions to account for the maneuver.

The NTSB is particularly interested in the captain's flight-control commands and her interaction with the first officer during the final 100 feet of the descent before the crash.

Southwest hasn't found any similar accident scenarios in previous years and has concluded the La Guardia crash doesn't pose any systemic hazards, Timothy Logan, the airline's top flight risk-management official, told an industry conference Wednesday in Vancouver.

The safety board hasn't turned up any training problems or deficiencies in the employment history of the captain, a 13-year veteran who has more that 8,000 hours flying in Boeing 737s.

The captain had landed only once before at La Guardia, according to the safety board. The first officer had about 1,100 hours of experience flying 737 jets and had flown into the airport six times previously in 2013, the NTSB has said.

The probe has been delayed partly because the pilots weren't interviewed until about a week after the accident.

The investigation is further complicated by the fact that both the captain and first officer filed reports about what happened under the airline's nonpunitive, voluntary safety-reporting system, according to people familiar with the details. Specifics from such reports normally are off limits to federal air-safety officials and particularly regulators.

The crew was making a visual approach, had turned off automated flight-control systems at the proper time, and also was relying on an instrument-landing system as a backup.

A major question remains why the captain, once she became concerned about the safety of the approach so close to the ground, didn't follow industrywide guidance to abandon the descent and climb away from the field.

Southwest has suffered accidents over the years stemming from planes running off the ends of slick or snowy runways, but the July mishap wasn't caused by any traction or braking problems.

More recently, according to people familiar with the details of Southwest's safety programs, company experts have focused on training pilots to ensure that they reach the landing touchdown point at the proper speed.

Transferring control during the descent's final phase, by itself, may have posed procedural and teamwork challenges. There's no indication of cockpit disputes, but independent safety experts said the first officer could have been startled by the change of plans barely a few seconds before touchdown.

The safety board "is delving into details of how you actually make that transition," according to one person close the probe. The cockpit-voice recorder, this person added, shows "a lot of dynamics between the two pilots."

Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds.

Write to Andy Pasztor at andy.pasztor@wsj.com
 

LJ45

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"The safety board "is delving into details of how you actually make that transition," according to one person close the probe. The cockpit-voice recorder, this person added, shows "a lot of dynamics between the two pilots."

Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds."

I wonder?....would love to see the transcripts.
 

Dan Roman

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"The safety board "is delving into details of how you actually make that transition," according to one person close the probe. The cockpit-voice recorder, this person added, shows "a lot of dynamics between the two pilots."

Mr. Logan of Southwest suggested the same point in his comments to a global gathering of air-accident investigators in Vancouver. Calling the La Guardia accident "a challenging event," he said data gathered so far indicates "there's a lot going on" in the cockpit in the last few seconds."

I wonder?....would love to see the transcripts.

Boy, those transcripts really are going to be interesting.
 

Dan Roman

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I'm sure you're right--the transcripts almost always are.

Bubba

You might take note that I haven't said this was a SWA problem or a result of taxiing to fast! Sounds like whatever happened could have happened at any airline. At the risk of jumping to conclusions it sounds like piss poor CRM by the Captain.
 

20sx

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I think it's going to be a Xmas present to everyone in a couple of months:)
 

SplitBar

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What are they defining as an accident? According to that site, Hawaiian had 15 acidents in 2010 and averages 3 per year. Pure bull********************. The last accident we've had was in 2000. We've never had a fatality or a hull loss.

Yeah, that list is beyond inaccurate. It says Mesaba had 3 accidents between 2006-2011. Name 1
 

General Lee

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Yeah, that list is beyond inaccurate. It says Mesaba had 3 accidents between 2006-2011. Name 1

Avro overrun at Rifle, CO?


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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