Southwest looking to contain costs - article

[jonjuan]

Have u polled the RSW FOs?

Is RSW now a FO base?

 

[Ty Webb]

He's tried to poll them, but they all seem fixated outside the aircraft, and respond with useless statements like "LEFT on Charlie! LEFT!".

:laugh:

 

[Dan Roman]

Oh, . As long as I choose to work for him, I'll do my job and be honest in how I do it. But waveflyer's silly idea that I should leave money on the table that is rightfully mine is asinine.

That's the point, you have chosen not to work for them. It's simply not the same as if you had wanted to work for them. You haven't, a corporate entity has seen fit to destroy your career to enhance their shareholder equity so you don't want any part of it. Fair enough, you owe them nothing.

 

[Dan Roman]

This just about sums up the mindset of the average American, pretty sad. Sorry Dan, but if you have kids I would hope as a person of a higher educated group you wouldn't condone this type of behavior. Go check out the movie "Idiocracy", I fear it's just where this country is headed. People everywhere go through life stealing, cheating and lying all the while justifying it on their current life situation. I truly feel sorry for my kids who have to live in a society like this, it's not their fault we brought them up honest.

"Higher education group"? I don't equate the mare educated people as necessarily having the most integrity. The track record of corporate America running roughshod over people's lives in this country is pretty dismal. Plenty of highly educated scumbags are willing to ruin the lives of good honest hardworking people for profit. You bring up a good point though, personal integrity is very important no matter what situation you find yourself in. But if someone doesn't want to work for a company, never asked to and has no intention of doing so, they certainly have the right to protect themselves from harm as best they can.

 

[redflyer65]

Destroy his career? You talking about his ALPA career?

 

[madjack]

Hey Ty, I wish you good luck in your transition...see ya on the line... I mean that all kidding aside...and PCL, the FATs I fly with speak highly of your tenacity, hope you change your mind and keep up the good work as a SWA pilot advocate...and for the record, I can use all the help I can get staying out of trouble...especially during taxi....good luck guys adios...

 

[SWA Bubba]

That's the point, you have chosen not to work for them. It's simply not the same as if you had wanted to work for them. You haven't, a corporate entity has seen fit to destroy your career to enhance their shareholder equity so you don't want any part of it. Fair enough, you owe them nothing.

Well, this post sure belies your oft-claimed "neutrality," now doesn't it, Dan?

Airline acquisitions and mergers (as well as those of other industries) are a fact of life. Sometimes they're a product of necessity, sometimes a vehicle for growth and change, sometimes a competition-based transaction, and most of the time, some combination of all these and more. But I don't know of any (other than those orchestrated by Lorenzo) where the goal, or at least the known outcome, was company liquidation and employee dismissal, i.e. destroying people's careers and livelihoods.

Southwest did not "destroy" PCL's airline career, in any way, shape or form. For you to imply is just another example of baiting. Did his career expectations change? Absolutely, along with everyone else at the combined company. In fact, you could make the argument that every employee of every company has their career expectations change with every major decision undertaken by their management. Be that a growth spurt, a growth freeze, strategic planning, or even a new contract with different terms, for that matter.

The overwhelming majority of FOs at AirTran see the transaction as a positive thing for them. They got large pay raises, better working conditions, and work for a more stable company. PCL was a junior FO at AirTran. Now he'll be a somewhat more junior FO at Southwest (if he comes over, that is), but with all the positive benefits I listed. Hell, with all the newhires this year, he would probably be somewhere near exactly the same seniority at Southwest that he was at AirTran, with the extra money and stability. And that's a career "destroyed" in your eyes, Dan? Just because PCL is mad for other reasons doesn't translate into a "corporate entity" destroying any individual or his career. No matter how much PCL claims. And no matter how much you want it to be true, to pursue your anti-SWA agenda.

And more importantly, the only reason that PCL is actually indignant is that his union efforts amounted to exactly nothing. Actually, they amounted to less than nothing. He may have had his union career "destroyed," but his airline career, assuming he ever actually wanted one in the first place, was not. He could have just as good if not better of an airline career at Southwest as he did at AirTran. You and he can pretend it's not true, but it most assuredly is. He's probably embarrassed that he overplayed his hand in the negotiations, and now a lot of his own former constituent pilots dislike him. He was personally made to look foolish and arrogant for his union-related actions, and he is personally named as contributor to the abject failure of leadership alleged in the ongoing lawsuit against ALPA by AirTran pilots. So I can see why he might be reluctant to come over to Southwest. Everyone knows who he is and what he has done. But that's okay; I suspect he really didn't want to be an airline pilot anyway, so much as he wanted to be some sort of national level George Meany-wannabe.

Accordingly, you could not be more wrong, Dan. Neither Southwest Airlines, AirTran Airways, Gary Kelly, Bob Fornaro, or either of both airlines' boards who approved this acquisition, did anything to "destroy" PCL's airline career. I know you like to pretend your neutrality, but when you make asinine posts like this, you just show yourself as another agitator, trying to fan the flames. Good God, man, just sack up and admit your blatant partisanship. It's pretty obvious to the rest of us.

Bubba

 

[HowardBorden]

I would never go "above and beyond" for him, but lying or not doing my job would be wrong. As long as I choose to work for him, I'll do my job and be honest in how I do it.

I'll start off by saying it is all your choice, and I don't blame you for sticking around and taking a paid vacation even if you don't plan on making the transition. However, don't act like you are taking the high road and being "honest" in how you do it. If you were being honest in your dealings with the company which you bear so much contempt, you would disclose your intentions to leave and let them decide how to handle the situation. Again, I don't blame you for doing it, I just take exception with you claiming you are being honest while doing it. Omission can also be a lie.

 

[PCL_128]

and PCL, the FATs I fly with speak highly of your tenacity

I doubt that's true. But thanks.

 

[PCL_128]

So much BS, so little time...

Well, this post sure belies your oft-claimed "neutrality," now doesn't it, Dan?

He seems pretty neutral to me. Pointing out injustice doesn't mean he's not neutral. It just means that he's not carrying SWA's water. He sees the reality. You're too close to see it.

PCL was a junior FO at AirTran.

Wrong. I was just about exactly in the middle of the FO list. Not junior at all.

Now he'll be a somewhat more junior FO at Southwest

Also not true. Not only would it take me about a decade to get back to my domicile, I would just barely be off reserve at all bases except LAS, PHX, and OAK (except for MCO, which I also can't even hold). QOL goes from getting exactly the schedule I want, to commuting across the country to just barely be a lineholder. That's a big difference, not just "somewhat more junior."

Hell, with all the newhires this year, he would probably be somewhere near exactly the same seniority at Southwest that he was at AirTran

Not even close. I have gained a few percent of relative seniority back thanks to the hiring, but according to the seniority calculator, I'm still another 6 years away from being back where I was on the date the merger was announced.

Just because PCL is mad

PCL isn't mad. PCL is quite happy, in fact. But I do feel that it's important to point out BS when it's spouted.

 

[waveflyer]

You do know that a much bigger, older airline bought you right?
What did you want that could have made you a mid level FO again since you only had a couple years longevity when AT was bought? 2007 hire right?

 

[fr8doggie]

I'll start off by saying it is all your choice, and I don't blame you for sticking around and taking a paid vacation even if you don't plan on making the transition. However, don't act like you are taking the high road and being "honest" in how you do it. If you were being honest in your dealings with the company which you bear so much contempt, you would disclose your intentions to leave and let them decide how to handle the situation. Again, I don't blame you for doing it, I just take exception with you claiming you are being honest while doing it. Omission can also be a lie.

I have the feeling that SWA management is fully aware of the content of these message boards.

 

[humveedriver]

. He's probably embarrassed that he overplayed his hand in the negotiations, and now a lot of his own former constituent pilots dislike him. He was personally made to look foolish and arrogant for his union-related actions, and he is personally named as contributor to the abject failure of leadership alleged in the ongoing lawsuit against ALPA by AirTran pilots.



Bubba

Really? That's not how I remembered it? If anything PCL totally had an "I told you so" experience during the whole process. You have to appreciate PCL is a total ALPA nerd. Knows the by laws and governance frontwards and backwards. When he questioned the actions and accessibility of the merger committee the Mighty Pres Hillman had him removed. This entire merger of pilot groups was a no win situation for all those involved. Lots of folks wanting to assign blame to whoever the could. Merger committees, Hillman, Chase. Members of each other's unions. But let's face it. None of us stood a chance.

 

[redflyer65]

You do know that a much bigger, older airline bought you right?
What did you want that could have made you a mid level FO again since you only had a couple years longevity when AT was bought? 2007 hire right?

He had to have relative or DOH, and neither one was going to happen.

 

[PCL_128]

You do know that a much bigger, older airline bought you right?

By now you must know that I don't give a $hit. Right?

What did you want that could have made you a mid level FO again

I think you know what my opinion was of what we were going to get in arbitration. No need to hash it out again.