Southwest looking to contain costs - article

[vixin]

I don't think I ever said inferior. AAI less of a company probably so not the pilots themselves.

 

[Dan Roman]

I don't think I ever said inferior. AAI less of a company probably so not the pilots themselves.

Well then even worse, do you really think the quality of some airlines management team should be a factor when merging pilot lists? A pilot is a pilot, the perception that " I worked for Herb!" should somehow factor into integration seems pretty silly to me.
And yes you were pretty aggressive with your attacks, you can't take that back.

 

[vixin]

I don't want to. Yes the quality and career expectation are a factor. If not I guess Republic guys should have had rights to the Frontier Airbuses. They are pilots flying A-B. What difference does it make?

 

[waveflyer]

Well then even worse, do you really think the quality of some airlines management team should be a factor when merging pilot lists? A pilot is a pilot, the perception that " I worked for Herb!" should somehow factor into integration seems pretty silly to me.
And yes you were pretty aggressive with your attacks, you can't take that back.

So if we bought Virgin or Allegiant you'd fight to offer them relative seniority??

 

[vixin]

He just another idiot like GL. Just ignore morons like him. Yes I do mean that. No I don't care to be nice.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof of these hundreds of AirTran pilots who had apps in at SWA. I've never believed it, and I never will, until I see some evidence. Just more SWAPA propaganda.

Propaganda?

How on earth did we get so many ex air tran pilots over here if nobody applied?
There are > 100

Your airline was still considered a stepping stone at the time of purchase, while SWA was not any longer.

That doesn't support your argument for relative seniority, but you didn't have an equal job and aren't entitled to relative or DOH or anything as close as you got. It's that simple and the fact that you personally didn't want this to happen doesn't mean it was fair at all to the majority of SWA pilots who got literally nothing from this except diluted seniority from a younger group.
Not a signing bonus. Not a raise. Not anything tangible.

But hey, go on "never believing" the propaganda that we were forwarded from our people department. You simply know it's against privacy ethics if not laws to name each of the 400, so you use that to cast doubt.

Always playing the game that benefits you and your poison the well cause. Your pilot group knows the truth and so do you- hundreds, if not a thousand, were dissatisfied with air tran, and looking for better pastures specifically at SWA.

Run from that all you want - but as inconvenient for you to consider that so many were willing to sacrifice ALL their seniority to be SWA, it is still very true and you know it.

It's understandable if captains over there don't know- but the FO's at air tran know-

 

[ATLplt]

It's understandable if captains over there don't know- but the FO's at air tran know-

Know what?

 

[PCL_128]

Propaganda?

How on earth did we get so many ex air tran pilots over here if nobody applied?
There are > 100

More claims, no proof. Propaganda. The few former AirTran pilots you do have there largely left early in the last decade, when AirTran had recently furloughed and struggled to avoid bankruptcy, also. But those facts are conveniently ignored by you.

Your airline was still considered a stepping stone at the time of purchase

Not by anyone here that I know. Sure, it probably was in your own mind, because you're so drunk on the kool aid that you think anything but SWA is sub par.

doesn't mean it was fair at all to the majority of SWA pilots who got literally nothing from this

And here is the fundamental problem with your thinking on this issue, and has been from the very beginning. You believe you were entitled to "get" something. A merger is not an opportunity for you to "get." It's simply a time to fairly merge lists. The time to "get" is in Section 6, and other collective bargaining opportunities that come along on occasion. You were not entitled, nor did you deserve, to "get" anything out of this SLI.

But hey, go on "never believing" the propaganda that we were forwarded from our people department.

Prove it.

 

[DCitrus9]

I am sure most of the AirTran apps on file had been submitted while people worked at their previous job or were furloughed from a former employer. I know myself and several others that were called while at AirTran (we declined the interview) and we had not updated our app in more than two years.

 

[PCL_128]

And that's exactly why they don't want to prove their numbers. Because they know that the light of day will show that incredibly few AirTran pilots were actively seeking employment at SWA. Probably far more SWA pilots actively seeking employment at Delta today.

 

[Ty Webb]

you didn't have an equal job and aren't entitled to relative or DOH or anything as close as you got.

Since you never had the experience of being a line-holding CA here, this may be hard to understand, but for most of us hired prior to 2004, AirTran has been an equal, if not better job.

If you don't believe me, look at the Transition classes, they have been junior-assigning CA's for the past year or more. That says a lot more than all the mythological applications on file.

Btw, I'm sure MESA and Mountain Air Cargo still have my "app on file". That doesn't mean squat. :laugh:

 

[Tripower455]

And that's exactly why they don't want to prove their numbers. Because they know that the light of day will show that incredibly few AirTran pilots were actively seeking employment at SWA. Probably far more SWA pilots actively seeking employment at Delta today.

As for "proof" I can only go by what I've been told by folks in the GO, and by personal experience.

I have personally flown with (at least) 5 or 6 FOs that were former FAT (pre acquisition). I'm betting that I haven't flown with every guy that came over from AT before the acquisition, but even if I have, that's still 5 or 6 more than left SW to go to AT.

None of them painted nearly as rosy a picture of day to day life at AT as the usual FI suspects do and were much happier here, well, at least until the acquisition announcement. Most of the FFAT guys I've flown with since would've all done better, seniority wise, had they stayed at AT.

It's amazing how much better AT was....... after the acquisition announcement............

 

[PCL_128]

As for "proof" I can only go by what I've been told by folks in the GO, and by personal experience.

The folks in the GO also told us that they had "500 people working on 'Plan B.'" If you believe that, I've got some great ocean front property in Kansas to sell you for a low, low price. No appraisals allowed, though. Sign on the dotted line right now.

of them painted nearly as rosy a picture of day to day life at AT as the usual FI suspects do and were much happier here, well, at least until the acquisition announcement.

Remember, you're dealing with self-selection bias on this. Of course the few people who decided to leave are much happier at SWA than they were at AirTran. They left because they had individual reasons for wanting to leave and work at SWA that many hundreds of others did not have. Living in or close to a SWA domicile, preferring the SWA style of flying, whatever. People have different reasons for wanting to work different places.

 

[Nindiri]

So if we bought Virgin or Allegiant you'd fight to offer them relative seniority??

Well, yeah, I would. Just because I got shafted doesn't mean I want to see anyone else treated the same way. Doing the right thing is not dependent on what's in it for me.

 

[Tripower455]

The folks in the GO also told us that they had "500 people working on 'Plan B.'" If you believe that, I've got some great ocean front property in Kansas to sell you for a low, low price. No appraisals allowed, though. Sign on the dotted line right now.

Remember, you're dealing with self-selection bias on this. Of course the few people who decided to leave are much happier at SWA than they were at AirTran. They left because they had individual reasons for wanting to leave and work at SWA that many hundreds of others did not have. Living in or close to a SWA domicile, preferring the SWA style of flying, whatever. People have different reasons for wanting to work different places.

Their descriptions of life prior to the acquisition jibed with just about every other AT pilot I know or spoke to prior to it. The vast majority of the folks I ran into on the prison bus, in airports, on layovers, as well as several friends who work there felt the same way. I guess I just encountered the minority opinion..........

 

[Ty Webb]

Their descriptions of life prior to the acquisition jibed with just about every other AT pilot I know or spoke to prior to it. The vast majority of the folks I ran into on the prison bus, in airports, on layovers, as well as several friends who work there felt the same way. I guess I just encountered the minority opinion..........

I'm not sure what purpose this debate serves, but you can be certain that every time you try to tell us what a great deal this is for us, someone will serve it back at ya.

What do you care, anyway? You were lucky enough to not be impacted by it. If life is so great as a SWA CA, why don't you go enjoy it?

:laugh:

 

[Dan Roman]

So if we bought Virgin or Allegiant you'd fight to offer them relative seniority??

It's my take that whatever flying an airline brings to the table in a merger, they should still do after the merger. The attitude of a lot of SWA folks on here was that they should be getting flying/seats from AirTran.

 

[Dan Roman]

He just another idiot like GL. Just ignore morons like him. Yes I do mean that. No I don't care to be nice.

Let's see...you ran a pretty steady attack on the AirTran folks on here during the merger. Then you say, hey let's put that behind us now and all be buddies! I call you on it and all you have in response is name calling? And I'm the moron??

 

[madjack]

AirTran didn't bring airplanes, DL got them....certainly not their idea but that is the reality

 

[Tripower455]

I'm not sure what purpose this debate serves, but you can be certain that every time you try to tell us what a great deal this is for us, someone will serve it back at ya.



What do you care, anyway? You were lucky enough to not be impacted by it. If life is so great as a SWA CA, why don't you go enjoy it?



:trust,laugh:

I didn't say it was a great deal for anyone. In fact, I truly believe that the entire debacle was a mistake on pretty much every level. I find it disingenuous to portray AT as the pinnacle of an airline career when by most pre 9/27 accounts, it was far from it. To everyone but the FI brain trust, SW was considered a more desirable airline to work for than AT.

Exactly how was I not impacted by it? It must be a coincidence that my QOL and pay has deteriorated markedly since the SLI began. In 2013 I made almost $30k less than previous years, and It wasn't for lack of trying..

Life as a SW Capt is still pretty good, but I am fast becoming a member of the 520 club.