Southwest looking to contain costs - article

[Ty Webb]

27, your primary airplane, the 717 was sold to DL, you had 50ish 737s, and you had orders, as did SWA, SWA also had 10 times the number of 737s AT had....the deal netted very few seats....but it did net 1700 FAT...this is not a who was better than who, you came from a smaller airline and the majority of the seats went elsewhere...

Yep. And you're sitting in one of them right now. Happy Oakland.

 

[Tripower455]

It's equally disturbing how much crappier SWA has turned out to be.

Sadly, it's really gotten a lot worse, starting, more or less around the time of the AT purchase. Still better than any other airline job I've had, by a large margin, but IMHO, we're messing it up by the numbers, operationally. It's only a matter of time before it catches up with us.

For those who got to experience the good old days. I'm jealous.

It was a great ride while it lasted.

 

[Nindiri]

The story of my life, always just a little too late to the party.

 

[Tripower455]

The story of my life, always just a little too late to the party.

Some of us still try to keep the "spirit" alive..... but it's getting harder to do every day.

 

[redflyer65]

Their descriptions of life prior to the acquisition jibed with just about every other AT pilot I know or spoke to prior to it. The vast majority of the folks I ran into on the prison bus, in airports, on layovers, as well as several friends who work there felt the same way. I guess I just encountered the minority opinion..........

No you didn't find the minority opinion about AirTran. The bad management, combined with a completely dysfunctional union and low wages and work rules (airport reserve anyone?) had plenty of pilots looking to go elsewhere. But to hear it now, it was the best airline to work for in the industry! Give me a break. There are plenty of good AAI people that should have been at SW to begin with, and there is another faction that would have never even gotten a call for an interview at SW (or any other major for that matter). Not a slam on those good guys at AirTran, but just a comment on the corporate/pilot hiring practices at AirTran over a number of years.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, they hired you, and a handful of other real doorknobs, too...Get down off your your soapbox before you fall and hurt yourself..

 

[Tripower455]

Well, they hired you, and some other real doorknobs, so it couldn't have been that hard.... Just saying.

LOL... I was thinking the same thing. Not about Redflyer, but our 10% is well represented in the RSW ranks.......

 

[redflyer65]

Well, they hired you, and a handful of other real doorknobs, too...Get down off your your soapbox before you fall and hurt yourself..

Not on a soapbox Ty. And you may be one of the great guys I look forward to flying with, but I know guys that got hired at AirTran after being fired from other 121 carriers and that's a big difference.

 

[madjack]

Ty, your orders won't cover the loss of the 717...350-400 AAI pilots will have global seniority to hold CP at SWA post 1/15, that's 60 aircraft worth of CPs...SWA did not need AAI aircraft orders, we are buying used aircraft and the max...again just how it went down....

 

[Ty Webb]

Not on a soapbox Ty. And you may be one of the great guys I look forward to flying with, but I know guys that got hired at AirTran after being fired from other 121 carriers and that's a big difference.

I appreciate you taking the high road, Red, but I do not personally know anyone here who was fired from another carrier... not to say it didn't happen before 9/11 but I sure doubt it after that.... I upgraded in 2004 and flew with furloughed major pilots, retired milspec and RJ Capts.... plus the rare Corp. Or Frac Capt.

 

[madjack]

It's a bummer you fly every flight with a Dbag?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Ty, your orders won't cover the loss of the 717...350-400 AAI pilots will have global seniority to hold CP at SWA post 1/15, that's 60 aircraft worth of CPs...SWA did not need AAI aircraft orders, we are buying used aircraft and the max...again just how it went down....

I hope you're crying on gk's shoulder concerning this, he paid somebody else to take them.

You're absolutely right concerning WN not needing AAI's orders. At the time they'd pretty much saturated the lower 48 and were several if not many years away from leaving the confines of less than 1/4 of this continent.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lets face it, both sides well played by a reborn textbook wielding anti labor accountant.

Unity is what this group needs, not a path toward finding who's sad sack story is better.

 

[PCL_128]

Well said.

 

[madjack]

Well that would be the 1/4 of the continent with $$...stick to flying airplanes

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Well that would be the 1/4 of the continent with $$...

I got it now, thanks for helping me finally figure it out. I are just a dumm pilot. The reason WN doesn't go out of the country is nobody else has any money so no use serving them. Yeah right, keep telling yourself that and vote yes when the company tells you to.

 

[madjack]

Your right, The acquisition of AAI enabled SWA to fly Int'l.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

The acquisition of AAI enabled SWA to fly Int'l. this decade.

Fixed it for you.

Good thing BKG wasn't a border city, you could have been ahead of your time.

 

[waveflyer]

They were all here when the SLI took place. Business decisions that take place post-SLI have nothing to do with it.

Check out PCL
HE KNOWS BETTER THAN MOST THAT WHAT MATTERS IS THE SNAPSHOT
Not when the SLI is being negotiated. But he's smart, I'll give him that and careful with his language (well, outside of the epic "c*m- guzzling") haha

But he makes that incorrect exchange of words bc he wants you to think that the airframes that were on the property in the past matter, but the pay rates and contract they had in place did not.

He argues his self interest

 

[PCL_128]

Check out PCL
HE KNOWS BETTER THAN MOST THAT WHAT MATTERS IS THE SNAPSHOT
Not when the SLI is being negotiated. But he's smart, I'll give him that and careful with his language (well, outside of the epic "c*m- guzzling") haha

But he makes that incorrect exchange of words bc he wants you to think that the airframes that were on the property in the past matter, but the pay rates and contract they had in place did not.

He argues his self interest

Actually, you're correct that it is the snapshot date that matters for the SLI. I wasn't trying to finesse the language, just wasn't being very precise. The reason that the pay rates don't matter is because they are irrelevant to seniority integration, not because of what date a snapshot was taken. They just have nothing to do with SLI. Which is why you were scared to death of arbitration.

 

[redflyer65]

Check out PCL
HE KNOWS BETTER THAN MOST THAT WHAT MATTERS IS THE SNAPSHOT
Not when the SLI is being negotiated. But he's smart, I'll give him that and careful with his language (well, outside of the epic "c*m- guzzling") haha

But he makes that incorrect exchange of words bc he wants you to think that the airframes that were on the property in the past matter, but the pay rates and contract they had in place did not.

He argues his self interest

Thanks for the flashback Wave. That was a little disturbing to say the least.

 

[waveflyer]

Actually, you're correct that it is the snapshot date that matters for the SLI. I wasn't trying to finesse the language, just wasn't being very precise. The reason that the pay rates don't matter is because they are irrelevant to seniority integration, not because of what date a snapshot was taken. They just have nothing to do with SLI. Which is why you were scared to death of arbitration.

So the amount of seats you bring, but didn't bring is irrelevant, but not your pay.

It's not a dis, you just argue your singular self interest

Pilots make most of theirs decisions based on money, but you decide it's irrelevant

 

[tankerhead]

It's better if you necro-quote it. It's easy to find by searching "guzzle".

I'd do it but I'm driving.

 

[dicko]

That was top FO pay by the way.

April 2004. Ten years ago this month:

SWA top Captain pay rate ~ $154.00 an hour.

AirTran top Captain Pay ~ $152.00 an hour.


I love the nouveau riche. Sadly, it's a condition that's often accompanied by brash hubris and solipsism.

 

[dicko]

Pilots make most of theirs decisions based on money,

And more money for an airline pilot comes from where Wave ? ..... Seniority. It insulates you, it keeps you warm at night and it will even protect you when your airline buys another airline.

Tri Power makes a great deal of money, but his seniority protected him from the slap and tickle of this SLI.



P.S. Vegas won

 

[madjack]

Enjoy your raise Luv2b

 

[redflyer65]

April 2004. Ten years ago this month:

SWA top Captain pay rate ~ $154.00 an hour.

AirTran top Captain Pay ~ $152.00 an hour.


I love the nouveau riche. Sadly, it's a condition that's often accompanied by brash hubris and solipsism.

Awesome point Dicko.

It shows how Southwest shared in the wealth and SWAPA was able to secure much, much better payrates while AirTran languished with the bad management team and dysfunctional union. None of that is your fault personally, just the landscape you had deal with at the time. Complete opposite at SW.

 

[waveflyer]

Vegas tends to win dicko

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Enjoy your raise Luv2b

I've already started losing on this side and it will continue until re-upgrade on the other side. I'll enjoy it in 5-6 years when I'll actually get a raise and get off reserve as a CA.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[madjack]

I meant the raise you got after SWA bought you....