Southwest evaluates -800's

[General Lee]

Hey Bill,

Southwest has a ZERO domestic codeshare clause, how about Delta?

Most international is off the table too. Kinda hard for SWA management to replace the ops.

RF

Your management didn't trust you flying to Canada or Mexico, so they initially went for someone else. Westjet just dumped you guys for a potential Delta code share hook up. But hey, you still have Volaris, right? They were just sold by their owner (which included Carlos Slim, the richest person in the World), so you have that going for you, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Westjest is gone and Volaris along with the other Mexican carriers are off the table.

What else you got General.

I guess DL doesn't trust you to go to hundreds of cities..

 

[The Prussian]

Go ahead and buy bottled water...I'm reaching in my pocket for my car keys...

 

[General Lee]

Hey General, you are just too easy buddy. Try this...

Compass.....36
Mesaba.......88
Pinnacle.....140
Comair.......120
ASA...........159

These total 543 without Skywest, Shuttle America and Mesa.

Its easily over 750 airframes (probably pushing 1000 if I had the exact numbers). What a joke. That's almost 300 aircraft more than Southwest even owns...

When I say enjoy your RJ's, you could pick one of a thousand!! Delta ALPA opened the door years ago, and YOUR management drove 1000 semi's right through the middle. You can go on and on about we parked this or that, but you will never recover the numbers you gave away.

How many pilots are not employeed by Delta because of this?

How many cities pairs lost?

How many airframes lost? Get the picture yet?

My last four day trip had two legs each day, so even your 4-5 legs a day rings hollow. Even on the rare occasion I do 4 legs a day, I know we are feeding our own operation....not farming it out like you do. Plus I get 105/hr after two years to do it. Enjoy all those RJ's buddy. I'll take the money to the bank and keep flying Southwest passengers....

well for... Southwest!

Are those current RJ numbers? I recall ASA losing 50 or so 50 seaters (some going to United) and some 76 seaters going to Air Mekong in Vietnam. Then there is Comair, which supposedly will lose a lot more this year. Mesaba doesn't have all jets--some are Saabs, and they are going away. Freedom Air (Mesa) has 22 RJs for Delta, and they will all go away by the end of this year. RA has stated he will be pulling down more of those 50 seaters, and we can see that that is underway.

As far as how many city pairs have been lost, or mainline jobs. Obviously, a lot over the years. No doubt about that. But, RJs are losing their luster, and the trend is reversing, especially with higher fuel out there.

And, the majority of your trips have mutiple leg days. You can't say otherwise. It's great you have a trip now and then that have fewer legs, but that isn't how your trips work. Your trips are supposed to be high productivity trips. Normally legacy pilots fly from BOS to LAX, or JFK to SLC and they are done. Not you guys, you fly BWI to SLC, and then onto LAS, and SJC. That stinks. Your trips try to get the max out of every day, and while that sounds great, you are left feeling like "dawgs." That is a direct quote from one of your FOs I talked to----"they work us like dawgs." But, if you like that stuff (for now anyway), good for you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Westjest is gone and Volaris along with the other Mexican carriers are off the table.

What else you got General.

I guess DL doesn't trust you to go to hundreds of cities..

Are you comparing LBB and AMA to DL cities like Quito, Beijing, and Lagos? Yeah, I guess your cities are tougher...????(2 of those are nice, BTW)

And, Westjet is gone because they left you. Volaris was never a good fit for anyone. Since they are gone, when again will you start some INTL flying? Luckily you have finally mastered the VNAV and PFD, right?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Nice attempt at spin on the RJ's, unfortunately it doesn't work.

It's a ton of domestic feed that's gone...forever. You will never put MD-90's or 737's on the routes that are history.

 

[The Prussian]

G.L....Go Dude, go!...15,000 posts says you can't respond quick enough to all the guys that disagree with you. Great try,...and enjoy Lagos (for now anyway)...

 

[Mach 80]

>>>And, the majority of your trips have mutiple leg days. You can't say otherwise. It's great you have a trip now and then that have fewer legs, but that isn't how your trips work. Your trips are supposed to be high productivity trips. Normally legacy pilots fly from BOS to LAX, or JFK to SLC and they are done. Not you guys, you fly BWI to SLC, and then onto LAS, and SJC. That stinks. Your trips try to get the max out of every day, .....<<<<

The SWA guys generally block the same hours of flying in 12 days of flying that the legacies get in 15 days of flying. If paid the same per block hour, I'd rather do the SWA thing (but of course the SWA guys are getting paid more these days).

 

[General Lee]

>>>And, the majority of your trips have mutiple leg days. You can't say otherwise. It's great you have a trip now and then that have fewer legs, but that isn't how your trips work. Your trips are supposed to be high productivity trips. Normally legacy pilots fly from BOS to LAX, or JFK to SLC and they are done. Not you guys, you fly BWI to SLC, and then onto LAS, and SJC. That stinks. Your trips try to get the max out of every day, .....<<<<

The SWA guys generally block the same hours of flying in 12 days of flying that the legacies get in 15 days of flying. If paid the same per block hour, I'd rather do the SWA thing (but of course the SWA guys are getting paid more these days).

And they get to go to ELP more too. Sure, you will only look inside the plane, and never look out, only doing autolands. Yeah, that's the ticket. All layovers are the SAME for you, and so are airplanes. Variety in life means nothing to you. No matter that the rest of your career will comprise of domestic flying that is the same month after month, year after year, on the same plane, forever. Sure, they are paid more now, but that very likely will change, and they will be stuck with LBB and HRL forever. And how do you know how many days of flying occurs at DL vs SWA? Do you know how many different combinations of trips can be had at a legacy? Whatever dude.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[beechlive]

...,,

 

[pipejockey]

Hey if they negotiate BETTER pay rates for the 737-800, that only helps us here at CAL.

Really? How do you figure that? SWA has had higher pay rates for flying 737's than Legacy widebody guys have had since 2002-2003. SWA rates haven't helped legacy pilots for the past 7 years, what is going to change now? Management comes crying they can't earn any more money. They threaten furloughs and bankruptcy, then the pilots cave and either take concessions or accept the status quo. I thought everyone knew this by now. This is America, that's what pilots do in America. It's Stockholm's Syndrome, you get beaten and abused so badly by someone and then you start to grow fond and end up protecting your abuser. How else to explain the management labor relationship in this putrid industry?

 

[scoreboardII]

Genreal, we get it, you hate your homelife and love being out on the road to so called "fancy places" looking at the world through CNN on the backside of the clock and hiding behind your curtain on the 9th floor.

Enjoy.

Some of us have lives outside of the job. Get over it.

 

[GuppyWN]

If the worst thing I do in my month is fly to LBB or El Paso (which I have not done in prolly 2 years), then I must be living right.

General constantly bitching about it only highlights it.

Gup

 

[satpak77]

What happens when that isn't the case anymore? The legacies ARE getting more healthy, and contract time is coming up at UAL/CAL (for the merger), and DL (2012 ammendable, but talks starting 18 months prior). If rates match SWA for the 737 or equivalent, and higher for widebodies, then what would you say? If pay was about the same, SWA would lose for lack of variety in planes, routes, layovers, etc. Some people don't care about where they go, until they try INTL flying and see that it is like a mini-vacation. It's great, and the SWA guys like to say it's no big deal because "they used to fly to INTL places in the C141....." It's just not the same, and they know it. So, add the same pay or better and more variety, SWA will be seen as a well paid REGIONAL, flying lots of legs to some nowhere towns in West Texas.


Stability? I would say the airlines paying down debt and having the most cash on hand are pretty good for now. (DL is doing both) And with possible mergers out there for every airline, stabiltiy may be hard to come by. CEOs will be making decisions that could affect everyone.

And you think new 737s satisfy "variety?" They already fly 737NGs. How does that satisfy variety? They are stuck on one plane type, forever. They will fly it to ELP and LBB over 600 times in their careers, and that might be in the first 10 years. 4 or 5 legs a day in that plane, trip after trip, would get mighty boring. But hey, they are currently well paid, and they seem to have fun, which is not bad I guess. But add pay at the other airlines, and I see SWA guys leaving SWA in droves. They did before 9-11---SWA Captains were leaving for newhire UAL classes.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, this is becoming a post-Kit Darby career fair discussion at the local bar. With that said

Paying down debt- I am glad DAL and the others are doing it. SWA never had much debt to speak of to begin with, compared to the big legacy majors.

Widebodies, "Variety", etc - most people who decided to go SWA recognize/accept that the 737 is probably the only plane they will ever fly. That is accepted for the big and secure paycheck (as stated, and I agree, for now...). The discussion about "variety" and "it must be boring" etc etc ad nauseum is akin to a computer programmer going to work for Apple and later we theorize that he will b1tch that he never gets to work on Windows operating systems and is "getting bored" at Apple.

Fun, Morale level - It could be argued that the work environment at SWA is happier that at others.

ELP - this is a 5-star diamond city and my sources tell me everybody in the airline industry wants to RON there.

Leaving in Droves - Don't know, but "post 9-11" everybody I know that has an ATP in there pocket has had an "attitude adjustment" regarding career expectations and the overall industry. If you are at a major or even (supposedly) stable corporate department, flying jet equipment, ain't nobody "jumping around" to different carriers.

My .02 cents. I might say I personally respect DAL and agree, it is a good place to be. However General, you and I both know that the applicant at Local Tool Company ABC, who flies a broke-d1ck Citation 500, and is ex-now-closed-doors-Part 121 regional airline, with 3000 HRS PIC turbine, and a new baby on the way, is a moron to not accept a SWA offer of employment. For him to "wait" for DAL to resume interviewing is asinine.

5 years later, this guy is closer to the left seat, and DAL has resumed hiring. To see him out and public, and tell him "you only fly to ELP, you suck" is silly.

You and I both know that......

 

[FlyinGuy]

GL does not get the fact that many of us have exciting lives outside of our careers. When I go to work, I want to work for the max pay. Therefore, I get more days to do what I really want to do. Stay away form airports, airplanes, and spend time at home.


Who cares about seeing some exotic location around the world with a flight crew. If I am going to go there, I am going to go with my wife!!!!