Southwest changing it's "stance" in ATL. HMMMMMM

[slaquer5]

Nope. He likes to stick his head in without acknowledging his own plight. His airline is kicking out expats, dumping planes, and at the same time falling more behind in the Gulf. He shouldn't put down any US carrier. It's more likely you don't understand what is going on in other places around the World because you are focused on INTRA Texas.


Bye Bye---General Lee

First of all, The world revolves around Texas.

 

[General Lee]

First of all, The world revolves around Texas.

Obviously! Well played Sir!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dash Power]

That's true, but don't slam INTL flying if your airline doesn't offer it (long haul). So what if you did it 20 years ago in a C130, that's not the same. If your airline does have a choice, and you try both, then you can slam it if you didn't like it. Otherwise, you have zero experience and no credibility in the subject.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I did it for nine months for a legacy. I never looked forward going on a trip. The other guys on my trips, with few exceptions, would much rather stay domestic. (money, seniority, etc)

To each their own for certain. For me, I love the company I work for, the people I work with and the flying I do. Last year I averaged 3.1 legs a day. The turns can be busy but because of the type of people SWA hires it becomes more a social half hour with the FA's, ops agents, passengers, etc. The overnights, like international, some are better than others but on the norm very social. The hotel lounges get us and we treat them well. Better than well. Often times we are pulling tables together so it turns almost into a party.

General your imagination of how International flying is no different than how it may have been in the sixties and what the general public believes it can be like today. We all know people from other airlines and a twenty year Delta flight attendant friend says it is very rare for crews to hang out because everyone is so tired being on the backside of the clock. They just want to go home. Yes they will go out for a few hours maybe now and then but it is never a "Catch me if you can" moment. The pilots and FA's rarely hang together on an overnight. The average age of International crews is "old and tired." Its a lonely job. And loners are typically the ones that don't have a problem with that type of life.

If you think you would be happier being a Delta International pilot then maybe you would be. I can tell you that you would not be happy at SWA. A pilot at SWA who is a loner fits in like the square peg in a round hole. They tend not to be very comfortable standing out in what is not the norm around SWA.

Good luck with your imaginary job.

 

[fam62c]

I did it for nine months for a legacy. I never looked forward going on a trip. The other guys on my trips, with few exceptions, would much rather stay domestic. (money, seniority, etc)

To each their own for certain. For me, I love the company I work for, the people I work with and the flying I do. Last year I averaged 3.1 legs a day. The turns can be busy but because of the type of people SWA hires it becomes more a social half hour with the FA's, ops agents, passengers, etc. The overnights, like international, some are better than others but on the norm very social. The hotel lounges get us and we treat them well. Better than well. Often times we are pulling tables together so it turns almost into a party.

General your imagination of how International flying is no different than how it may have been in the sixties and what the general public believes it can be like today. We all know people from other airlines and a twenty year Delta flight attendant friend says it is very rare for crews to hang out because everyone is so tired being on the backside of the clock. They just want to go home. Yes they will go out for a few hours maybe now and then but it is never a "Catch me if you can" moment. The pilots and FA's rarely hang together on an overnight. The average age of International crews is "old and tired." Its a lonely job. And loners are typically the ones that don't have a problem with that type of life.

If you think you would be happier being a Delta International pilot then maybe you would be. I can tell you that you would not be happy at SWA. A pilot at SWA who is a loner fits in like the square peg in a round hole. They tend not to be very comfortable standing out in what is not the norm around SWA.

Good luck with your imaginary job.

It seems odd to hear people who like their company, their job and the type of flying they do to keep arguing about which job is better. If you are happy with what you have why do you need to spend so much time trying to convince others that what you have is better than what they have? What's the point? It seems like a waste of time, why not just let the other guy have the last word, leave it at that and be done with it? It's tiresome when people make the same point over and over and over and over.

Don't you guys ever get tired of this crap?

 

[CRJ puppy]

Walk up fare for today

LGA-ORD 12:15pm DL5943
First class three free checked bags

$403..........and it's an rj

What business traveler walks up and buys a ticket? Hello? Isn't there an app for that?

Pretty standard for Shuttle flights and that's a Shuttle flight.

Arguing with GL is like arguing with your shadow. You'll never win. It's best to place him on "mute" (ignore) and you will be amazed at how much more pleasant life will be.

 

[redflyer65]

It's tiresome when people make the same point over and over and over and over.

It's because this is what the General does. The same thing over and over.

He took a break when everyone busted his balls a few months back, but he can't help himself.

To recap every point he's ever made..

Delta is the best run airline in the world.
Southwest sucks and is getting their @ss kicked in ATL.
RA is a genius for buying a refinery.
International flying is head and shoulders better than SW LBB overnights.
Letting Delta get bigger RJs is actually a good thing!


How many times can someone say the same thing....year after year after year.

 

[Whine Lover]

By responding to this thread, I become ONE of You.

Easiest Club I was ever Self-Admitted to....The Idiot's Debate Club.



I'm putting this on my Resume'. (!)

Thank You,

YKW

 

[General Lee]

I did it for nine months for a legacy. I never looked forward going on a trip. The other guys on my trips, with few exceptions, would much rather stay domestic. (money, seniority, etc)

To each their own for certain. For me, I love the company I work for, the people I work with and the flying I do. Last year I averaged 3.1 legs a day. The turns can be busy but because of the type of people SWA hires it becomes more a social half hour with the FA's, ops agents, passengers, etc. The overnights, like international, some are better than others but on the norm very social. The hotel lounges get us and we treat them well. Better than well. Often times we are pulling tables together so it turns almost into a party.

General your imagination of how International flying is no different than how it may have been in the sixties and what the general public believes it can be like today. We all know people from other airlines and a twenty year Delta flight attendant friend says it is very rare for crews to hang out because everyone is so tired being on the backside of the clock. They just want to go home. Yes they will go out for a few hours maybe now and then but it is never a "Catch me if you can" moment. The pilots and FA's rarely hang together on an overnight. The average age of International crews is "old and tired." Its a lonely job. And loners are typically the ones that don't have a problem with that type of life.

If you think you would be happier being a Delta International pilot then maybe you would be. I can tell you that you would not be happy at SWA. A pilot at SWA who is a loner fits in like the square peg in a round hole. They tend not to be very comfortable standing out in what is not the norm around SWA.

Good luck with your imaginary job.

Totally ridiculous. Wait, you flew long haul for a legacy, for 9 months? Were you the bottom guy? 9 months? Anyway..... We have many PFO's, professional FOs, that stay on INTL until they retire. I just saw an A330 crew and both FOs were older than the Capt. They were talking about Amsterdam and how the weather is warming up now after a brutal Winter, but lately it has been warm enough to take the hotel bikes out for a ride. The crew was laying over in ATL, and are off to Rome tomorrow. They looked really happy, not unhappy like your old airline's crews. Sorry, but you did fly for the wrong legacy.

I'm glad you like your multiple leg days on the same plane for the rest of your career. You probably make good coin, and you like your company. That's fantastic for you. I like long haul, but I can change that to domestic when I want. We are both Happy. That.....is.....fantastic.

Red,

It's repetitive because you don't seem to understand it. Your jumpseater story made no sense, primarily because that guy flying INTL could have easily bid off to 717. If he didn't, he must not have hated INTL that much.... Hopefully you now understand.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

United orders 30 jumbo RJs

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...lion-of-embraer-regional-jets.html?cmpid=yhoo

 

[SWA Bubba]

Bubba,

You and Red don't understand. Anyone still holding INTL (smallest ETOPS widebody is the 76ER) could have bid 717 FO on this last bid. There were bottom DC9 FOs that were displaced onto it, but an AE (entitlement bid) trumps that. He could have bid off for free (getting rid of any seat hold) because it was a new plane. Also, anytime an existing plane goes to a new base (DTW 737), anyone can bid that too. So, if he somehow hated multiple crossings (which normally is pretty senior anyway and he could have only bid domestic if he wanted to) he could have had at least the 717 FO.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Fine. Maybe now he can bid off to the 717, now that it's the new least desireable position. Months ago when I talked to him, he couldn't. The point it, that a lot of your 767 International FOs are there because of their juniority. Do a lot really, really like International ops and wouldn't leave when they get the opportunity? Sure, probably some. You are a self-professed prime example of this. You like it. Good for you.

My point was that there's people who like international, but there's also a lot who do not, including at your airline. A lot of times it works out that they get what they want. Just like over here: there's people who love AMs and people who love PMs; there's people who love long-hauls, and believe it or not, pilots who love the Texas two-step. However, when there's even a little disparity, it's the junior guys who have to do the flying that isn't their choice. And it turns out that there's not enough pilots who love International, so some junior guys are forced to do it to make up the numbers.

I'm happy that you like your international flying. I really am. Why aren't you happy in return that a lot of guys prefer domestic flying? Both groups get to do what they want, and fly the trips they think are better. You're not going to convince them, and they're not going to convince you. Think about it, General: they're actually doing you a favor. The fact that junior guys get forced to do international flying enhances your seniority. I mean, if everyone wanted it, YOU wouldn't be senior enough to hold it.

Can we stop the "my overnight is better than yours" BS now?

Bubba

 

[General Lee]

Alright Bubba, for YOU, I'll stop the "this layover is better than that layover..." (For now). Just understand this. All INTL flying is senior. Even in NYC, where many junior pilots go, the INTL trips go senior, and domestic "See America" trips go junior. Yes, a reserve could get some INTL flying, but anything going over the pond on the open board is grabbed quickly, at almost every base on the 7ER. The INTL flying pays more, and per diem is higher also.


Take care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

Yes, a reserve could get some INTL flying, but anything going over the pond on the open board is grabbed quickly, at almost every base on the 7ER. The INTL flying pays more, and per diem is higher also.

Of course international flying is going higher on the seniority list, follow the money! When the larger aircraft fly international routes and get compensated at a higher rate for the flying they, do senior folks will always flock to it. But, when all flying is done at the same rate of pay, many will opt out of the back side of the clock multiple time zone flying. Feel free to take a look at UPS and see where the senior boys are flying. All aircraft on that seniority list are paid the same. The most senior guys are flying whatever equipment will allow them to stay away from the backside of the clock and keep them domestic even though they are missing out on a hefty premium on per diem.

Of course these are only generalizations and everybody makes those decisions based on their own set of circumstances. If you personally love international flying and love a 30 hour layover in a great city, more power to you. But please don't discount the folks that will gladly miss out on that layover in order to remain in North America and spend that extended layover time at home, due to less days on the road, if the compensation is the same.

 

[General Lee]

INTL flying can have more time at home, btw. DL does have 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours (no 30/7 rule for INTL) and up to 12 day trips to Asia (fly intra Asia once over there, like Narita to Guam, next day back one leg to Narita, then Seoul the next day, etc) worth up to 80 hours. Sounds rough, but doing a 7 day trip worth up to 40 hours means more days overall at home in a month, and doing a 12 day trip at the beginning of one month and one at the end of the next month means you could have 35 days off in a row between trips. Talk about time with the family. I saw a few 12 day trips on the 76ER that had 99 hour layovers in Palau, and island South of Guam, at a very nice resort that has downed Japanese Zeros in the bay you can snorkel around. Over 4 days off on a tropical island in the middle of a 12 day trip.(the flight from Narita is 3 days a week, hence one of the layovers is 99 hours until you return to Narita) That's more like a vacation, and many people bring spouses or kids on those if the loads look good (Air Mike-now United-- also goes there as a back up if needed to get out). Or, you could bid one day turns or 2 days trips too. Variety and choice are great things.

Regardless, both airlines are great, and I am not comparing layovers, just giving an example of how INTL flying can also give you plenty of home time with the family.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

INTL flying can have more time at home, btw. DL does have 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours (no 30/7 rule for INTL) and up to 12 day trips to Asia (fly intra Asia once over there, like Narita to Guam, next day back one leg to Narita, then Seoul the next day, etc) worth up to 80 hours. Sounds rough, but doing a 7 day trip worth up to 40 hours means more days overall at home in a month, and doing a 12 day trip at the beginning of one month and one at the end of the next month means you could have 35 days off in a row between trips. Talk about time with the family. I saw a few 12 day trips on the 76ER that had 99 hour layovers in Palau, and island South of Guam, at a very nice resort that has downed Japanese Zeros in the bay you can snorkel around. Over 4 days off on a tropical island in the middle of a 12 day trip. That's more like a vacation, and many people bring spouses or kids on those if the loads look good (Air Mike-now United-- also goes there as a back up if needed to get out). Or, you could bid one day turns or 2 days trips too. Variety and choice are great things.

Regardless, both airlines are great!/QUOTE]
You are missing the point! I can guarantee you UPS has the same variety of pairings, but when you equalize the pay factor, senior folks are opting to stay in North America and skip the international hassle that includes back side of the clock flying and multiple time zones.

 

[canyonblue]

DL does have 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours (no 30/7 rule for INTL) and up to 12 day trips to Asia (fly intra Asia once over there, like Narita to Guam, next day back one leg to Narita, then Seoul the next day, etc) worth up to 80 hours.

Bye Bye---General Lee

So it's two 7 day trips, 14 days, to get 80 hours or go away for 12 straight days to get 80 hours? F that, 3 on 4 off is about as good as it gets. Crap, I don't even like 4 day trips, I still love my wife and kids and enjoy seeing them. Our F/A's don't even have 4 days in their bids.

 

[fr8doggie]

Then why is the int'l flying extremely senior at FDX? Been here 24 years and can't hold an international line (not counting Canada/Mex).

YMMV but long haul seems to be more popular here than CONUS. And we have a lot of domestic day flying here.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

So it's two 7 day trips, 14 days, to get 80 hours or go away for 12 straight days to get 80 hours? F that, 3 on 4 off is about as good as it gets. Crap, I don't even like 4 day trips, I still love my wife and kids and enjoy seeing them. Our F/A's don't even have 4 days in their bids.

Only 12 percent of International trips are greater than 10 days....most are 3-4 days with about 30 percent being 6 days.

You are big time mistaken if you think that's all we do are 12 days.

I'll take 2 legs, a bunk, 2 meals and a beer in Europe than 3 days of up/down and running to Sbarro for the same hours. Love my wife and kids too and enjoy seeing them also......

Quit the urinary Olympiad over who's flying is better.....it's all about what works for YOU.....not what you want everybody to think is the best deal.

 

[Ty Webb]

Fine. Maybe now he can bid off to the 717, now that it's the new least desireable position.

Surprisingly, the 717 awards at Delta are going senior, from what I'm hearing on the coconut telegraph. Not sure if it is for the base, or just to try something new.

It's actually a nice airplane to fly . . . when guys transitioned from the DC9 to the 717, they used to call it "early retirement".

 

[HowardBorden]

Then why is the int'l flying extremely senior at FDX? Been here 24 years and can't hold an international line (not counting Canada/Mex).

YMMV but long haul seems to be more popular here than CONUS. And we have a lot of domestic day flying here.

Yes, I won't deny that but you are again missing the point. At FedEx there is a $36 an hour premium flying the larger equipment. That alone coupled with trip density skews the results. As I said before, it's all about the money! That is why I used the UPS example. When all equipment is paid at the same rate, many will opt out of long haul international flying. I'm not trying to say long haul international sucks, I'm simply saying that when you remove the higher pay from the equation many will opt for front side of the clock domestic flying. If SWA had lengthy multi-day pairings that paid more and offered me more time at home, I would swallow my aversion to week long pairings and flock to where the money is.

 

[scrub]

WOW!
Question, Why don't pilots run airlines?
Answer, Because they don't know how to run an airline!

Now GL And Bubba you guys "are in more dire need of a blow job than any white man in history"