Southwest changing it's "stance" in ATL. HMMMMMM

[OK3]

Well said Wave! General, sometimes you have interesting things to say about the industry. When you get in to these my airline is better than yours type discussions ......not so much. You sound desperate to convince yourself you are happy and better than everyone else. I am glad you like Delta so much. I am happy at SWA but realize it is not the place for everyone.

 

[HowardBorden]

I am happy at SWA but realize it is not the place for everyone.

You can say that again. I love it at SWA that's why I accepted the job here. I love the scheduling flexibility, our work rules are great and I average 18+ days off a month. However, it is easy to see that it is not for everyone. Everyone has different desires. One mans trash is another mans treasure.

 

[waveflyer]

Soooooooooo, you're against choice? What?? You'd rather have NO choice? Oh-Kay.........

Some guys like domestic, some want INTL. Here, you can do both. The 7ER category flies both domestic and INTL. When it comes to contract negotiations, some guys want certain things, but you vote on it and move on. I don't see any INTL guys talking poorly about domestic only guys (like Dc9 etc). Nope. If they want to try it, they can bid it. It's called a choice, and it's FANTASTIC.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Lets not pretend all choices are equal. Some are destructive- some are good.
The way alpa contracts are set up, pilots often choose to fly intl when they'd rather not (ie: towards the end of the career when it's tougher on the body) bc to not do so is truly giving money away that you could be earning for your family- that sucks-
Chasing that carrot-
I'm all for choice in type of flying- and guess what? I could've not 'chosen' to work for SWA if international widebody was all that important to me-
Get it?
I want the whole pilot group to get the raises widebodies would bring-
Looks like we'll have that choice eventually anyway- hopefully we stay true to self and keep being the egalitarian SWA throughout the changes- how we operate, what we do, can evolve and get better- out ethics and foundation don't have to

 

[waveflyer]

Well said yourself ok3 (and Howard)

GL- we had choices when we signed up for this SWA job-
Now it looks like we'll be into the international game regardless-
I hope we learn the lessons from alpa and set it up just a bit different-

(Btw- there should be extra money for intl- bc it's harder on the body- and more expensive in many of those cities- wasted time in customs-
It just shouldn't be the pay rate, but additional per diem- and not NEARLY the disparity that alpa contracts have.

 

[humveedriver]

Lets not pretend all choices are equal. Some are destructive- some are good.
The way alpa contracts are set up, pilots often choose to fly intl when they'd rather not (ie: towards the end of the career when it's tougher on the body) bc to not do so is truly giving money away that you could be earning for your family- that sucks-
Chasing that carrot-
I'm all for choice in type of flying- and guess what? I could've not 'chosen' to work for SWA if international widebody was all that important to me-
Get it?
I want the whole pilot group to get the raises widebodies would bring-
Looks like we'll have that choice eventually anyway- hopefully we stay true to self and keep being the egalitarian SWA throughout the changes- how we operate, what we do, can evolve and get better- out ethics and foundation don't have to

I feel comfortable saying that's an unfair and inaccurate generalization. In fact, it's an assumption. I have met many Captains who choose to fly smaller domestic aircraft at legacy carriers to be based at home and or better schedule. I think comparing international and domestic flying, makes as much sense a comparing corporate and 121. Both have major advantages and disadvantages.

 

[redflyer65]

Good for you. We all get it. We have for years now. You are wonderful because you are convincing everyone that your airline is better than everyone else's. If only I could get the hours back wishing, just wishing upon a star that I could be like GL and work for Delta. Oh well. I guess I just have to get back in the piece of crap 737 and fly another overnight to LBB. Oh well.

If you were not on this board it would be so much more constructive instead of your neurotic need to prove yourself. Instead more and more people are off this forum because of the atmosphere you produce and that means advertising dollars. But that is the owners choice. The guy(s) who run this must have the same needs as GL. Poor business in any schools book.

I think this one sentence pretty much says it all.

The continuous year after year BS of the General gets really old. "I'm much happier than you and my airline is better than yours" = IDIOTIC/NEUROTIC.

He does enjoy stirring the pot though. Doesn't change my mind out being at SW one bit. If Delta called tomorrow and offered me the same hire date, I'd turn them down in a heartbeat.

To each their own....

 

[texman]

I think this one sentence pretty much says it all.

The continuous year after year BS of the General gets really old. "I'm much happier than you and my airline is better than yours" = IDIOTIC/NEUROTIC.

He does enjoy stirring the pot though. Doesn't change my mind out being at SW one bit. If Delta called tomorrow and offered me the same hire date, I'd turn them down in a heartbeat.

To each their own....

Look who started the thread

 

[General Lee]

I think this one sentence pretty much says it all.

The continuous year after year BS of the General gets really old. "I'm much happier than you and my airline is better than yours" = IDIOTIC/NEUROTIC.

He does enjoy stirring the pot though. Doesn't change my mind out being at SW one bit. If Delta called tomorrow and offered me the same hire date, I'd turn them down in a heartbeat.

To each their own....

To each is own is right. I'm not trying to prove my self worth, I'm trying to get you to see that having a CHOICE is a great thing. If you don't have a choice in flying, then you can't argue on which is "a better lifestyle." And, someone like Dash who flew INTL for 9 months at some legacy can't really describe it accurately, primarily because being junior on INTL can be a lot different than being senior.

Many people will be looking for new jobs in the next few years due to retirements, and they may want different perspectives on different flying and options. This forum allows that. Don't get too mad, please. There is a difference when it comes to LCC and Legacy flying, and again people may want to know about it. The FedEx guy gave a great example, followed by the DL Capt Dalad. Don't seem so threatened.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

To each is own is right. I'm not trying to prove my self worth, I'm trying to get you to see that having a CHOICE is a great thing. If you don't have a choice in flying, then you can't argue on which is "a better lifestyle."

Having a choice is fine and everyone makes them. The problem lies with your incessant attitude that you, or anyone that chose similarly to you, made the right one and the rest chose poorly. It seems that you want to tell us all how badly we missed the boat when we made different choices.

 

[General Lee]

Having a choice is fine and everyone makes them. The problem lies with your incessant attitude that you, or anyone that chose similarly to you, made the right one and the rest chose poorly. It seems that you want to tell us all how badly we missed the boat when we made different choices.

Don't get defensive, I never said you made a bad choice. I said people who comment on how bad INTL flying is, without ever really trying it or who don't have the option, have no clue what they are talking about. If you like your job and where you go, then good for you. For people out there maybe looking for a new job coming up here, there is a difference in airlines and routes, and they should look into the differences.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

That's great, honestly- but here's the problem with your . . . . obsession- it creates natural divisions. Because[ union], and [other union] in general, . . . . . - these divisions grow and the pilot/human disease of "I'll be happy when...." occurs. The pilot/human disease of "i make more $$= i am better than...i can stand a little taller around my peers." occurs. "i can look down on them" occurs?? sometimes?
You know it does.

With a few substitutions, sounds a lot like the SLI, to me. . . . :laugh:

 

[madjack]

It's all about the $$ and time off

 

[fr8doggie]

I find this whole argument ridiculous. I know that SWA is a great flying job, one of the best. What makes me laugh is all of the ...Int'l sucks, I never wanted to do anything but fly 737s in the CONUS, I've wanted to be a SWA pilot since I was 2 years old...blah, blah, blah.

Back in the mid-90's I was based in OAK. We had a pretty senior SWA guy who would jump on us a lot. Very nice guy. Was a Captain, black guy who flew BUFF's in his previous life (in case any of you knew him). He used to look at our 74's and MD-11's and sigh. He really wanted to try the long haul flying. It's nice to have the options.

I guess we'll just see how widebody, int'l flying evolves at SWA. If it ever does. It's still one of the best flying jobs around, though. With the exception of FDX, of course. The only thing wrong with FDX is we don't have 747-8's.

Regards,
fr8-

 

[HowardBorden]

What makes me laugh is all of the ...Int'l sucks, I never wanted to do anything but fly 737s in the CONUS, I've wanted to be a SWA pilot since I was 2 years old...blah, blah, blah.

Actually, I don't think international sucks at all. Some of the destinations people talk about sound really nice. The problem for me personally lies in the back side of the clock flying. I flew small plane freight for years, all on the back side of the clock. It really was extremely difficult for me to adjust to it. Actually I never adjusted to it. I was a zombie for 3 years straight and it was unhealthy for me. I know that some folks adjust easily and can go back and forth between nocturnal and the more traditional front side of the clock wake sleep cycles, I'm just not one of them. Of course this was all single pilot operations and domestic flying as well. I understand that it would be an easier experience with a relief crew, but it would also add multiple time zones to the equation and that is hard enough for me to deal with already. I'm already dreading redeye flying arriving at SWA. I will avoid it all costs if my seniority will allow it since I am simply not well suited to that type of operation. So, in answer to your statement: "I never wanted to do anything but fly 737s in the CONUS." It doesn't have to be 737's or CONUS, it just so happens that those two are much more conducive to me remaining on the front side of the clock at work which makes me a much happier and safer pilot.

 

[General Lee]

It's all about the $$ and time off

So says the guy with ONLY domestic flying choices. (Non long haul). Hey, if I'm going to go to the airport, I want to go somewhere I want to go. Maybe you don't feel that way, and if so, that's sad. I enjoy bidding to go places fun, interesting, and somewhere I consider a vacation. It pays well at the same time btw....


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

maybe you don't feel that way, and if so, that's sad.

Bye bye----general lee

????????



rf

 

[tankerhead]

I hear Sonny and Cher singing through a clock radio.

At least that old movie "Groundhog Day" was funny and ended well. This is just sad and stupid and neverending.

 

[Dash Power]

And, someone like Dash who flew INTL for 9 months at some legacy can't really describe it accurately, primarily because being junior on INTL can be a lot different than being senior.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Oh yeah. I never got a good feel for it. I never flew with senior guys. I never had long overnights. I was never on the backside of the clock. It takes the experience the GL has to be superior in making those types of judgements. I just don't have the experience after 26 years and five airlines to EVER make such a difficult decision about what International flying is like.

I really think you get off being who you are on this forum. What a waste of life. I think I am now pro choice.

 

[General Lee]

Oh yeah. I never got a good feel for it. I never flew with senior guys. I never had long overnights. I was never on the backside of the clock. It takes the experience the GL has to be superior in making those types of judgements. I just don't have the experience after 26 years and five airlines to EVER make such a difficult decision about what International flying is like.

I really think you get off being who you are on this forum. What a waste of life. I think I am now pro choice.

Easy Dash, don't get too upset. Look, you weren't there long enough, end of story. You may have flown some trips, but not the good ones, or you wouldn't have left.

I have flown multiple leg days on a narrowbody though, and I really didn't like that. Way too hard-- more than 3 legs in one day is too tough... When I do bid Capt on what I want (737 first or 320 maybe, then bigger), I will make sure I can hold one or two leg days with long legs. Soooo much easier. But, ill be ready to bid widebody long haul as soon as I can, and with some years having 800 senior guys leaving, it might not be that long.... Ahhhh, that will be really nice....

Also, easy on the personal attacks. This thread has morphed into an analysis on domestic and INTL long haul flying. A FedEx guy and several DL Capts have joined in. Some airlines and air cargo companies have both types, and some do not. That part isn't debatable. "Choice" is never a bad thing. Good day.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Haha.

You can even feel the arrogance oozing out from underneath Double Breast Blazer. Just makes you look even more neurotic.

Keep talking Gen, it only gets better.