Southwest and Frontier?

[starchkr]

"keep what we have going now"

?

We are operating within Chapter 11, and need more then $100 million in financing in order to exit.

I can think of a lot more unfavorable outcomes then being acquired by SWA.

Best case scenario, Menke sells this place to investors and we continue to exist as F9. Throw in some growth and another hub and I start to get erect.

Worst case scenario, credit markets are terrible and we can't get a loan. Some entity wants our market share and waits until we go TU. Then they march in to DIA by shaving 3-4% of their capacity around the country and re-allocate those airframes in and out of Denver.

Yeah, I think an acquisition by SWA before we shut down falls somewhere in between the two end of the spectrum.

True, and i like the way you are thinking, but i for one have a very positive attitude towards our future...no matter what the options may be. Also, i was talking more about our culture and the benefits such as our excellent scheduling system and options we have for building our own lives at work. No it wouldn't be the end of the world if we were to be acquired...well, or so i think, depending on when or "IF" they give us jobs or even a shot at one.

 

[puddlejumper101]

True, and i like the way you are thinking, but i for one have a very positive attitude towards our future...no matter what the options may be. Also, i was talking more about our culture and the benefits such as our excellent scheduling system and options we have for building our own lives at work. No it wouldn't be the end of the world if we were to be acquired...well, or so i think, depending on when or "IF" they give us jobs or even a shot at one.

let's say you guys got intergrated...would it be such a bad deal then?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

until they have to re-interview for the job...It would not be a merger so I believe the whole integration would/could not be an issue if the company just purchases the assets and certificate...

God...how many times have we heard that in this industry ?!?!?!? You may call it that...but all the company has to do is use the "Merger" word one time...and it's on...

 

[mt2]

Maybe the acquisition will be like the ATA one -- post-mortem.

 

[USMC319]

Maybe the acquisition will be like the ATA one -- post-mortem.

Pack a lunch.

 

[StaySeated]

I am extremely biased so my opinion is even more worthless than a typical flightinfo post, but you can't compare F9 today to ATA before they shut the doors. Anything and everything can happen, but in addition to posting some very positive numbers over the past four months, we have at least one very smart person in charge of this circus. (Unfortunately the multitude of dumbarses around him tend to drag down our performance, can you say LIDO)His ego and his wallet won't allow this place to just fold. We may not fly around with fuzzy, smelly beasts on our tails anymore, but I am putting my money on a straight up acquisition similar to the intial DIP from Perseus that never came to fruition.
They were going to get 80% of the airline for $70 million.
The price has advance to more than $100 million, but that is pretty attractive considering the revenue.
Who knows what is going to happen, just talking out of my azz, trying to make sense of a senseless industry.

 

[FBN0223]

No merger here. My bet is Frontier emerges from Chapter 11 stronger and ready to defend it's home turf. The cost per seat mile at Frontier will be competitive with Southwest if not lower and Frontier's product is, quite simply, better. For those who prefer assigned seats, live TV, and not having to queue up for a decent seat, the choice out of Denver is obvious.

 

[Ty Webb]

until they have to re-interview for the job...It would not be a merger so I believe the whole integration would/could not be an issue if the company just purchases the assets and certificate.

Spoken like a real ****************************** and it says a lot about the SWA of today.

Alaska is a viable, operating major airline. You would either have a list integration, or you would be sitting around wondering why you just inherited 150 airframes and no pilots to fly them.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I bet Alaska. Drive the price up on DAL.

 

[Mamma]

until they have to re-interview for the job...It would not be a merger so I believe the whole integration would/could not be an issue if the company just purchases the assets and certificate...such as in ATA...there is the chance they would not have a job...I doubt that it would come to that but this is a strange business

You sure have a keen insight to management's intentions! You should be paid more for your unique skill set!

 

[RedDogC130]

Spoken like a real ****************************** and it says a lot about the SWA of today.

Alaska is a viable, operating major airline. You would either have a list integration, or you would be sitting around wondering why you just inherited 150 airframes and no pilots to fly them.

Don't get pissed at me for saying things that may happen. Just because you do not like the reality of a certain situation please do not hide under a blanket hoping it would go away. I am not saying any of this would happen...it just could....would I like to see anymore pilots ahead of me on my senority list...NO. Would you? The fact that some of these pilots would not even meet the requirments to work here....do you think that all the pilots here have the 737 type for any other particular reason than to lower insurance for the company...that is the only reason I can see it....how many of these people at these other airlines have the type and the general PIC that the company hires for? Especially at any regional. So this would not be an easy integration at all....I personally do not see the company purchasing anyone right now...your right who am I to know anything.

 

[Mamma]

I am not saying any of this would happen...it just could....would I like to see anymore pilots ahead of me on my senority list...NO. Would you?

Spoken like a true a$$h0le. What you are saying is "Let's buy up a profitable airline and throw all the highly experienced 737 pilots on the street and make them re-interview for a job...underneath you." I think that is what Ty was getting at. Guys like you that "have ours" are more than willing to throw the rest under the bus to advance themselves. How did you get through the interview process at SWA? I doubt SWA wants Alaska but wouldn't a decent person want a fair integration that works out for most?

 

[RedDogC130]

Spoken like a true a$$h0le. What you are saying is "Let's buy up a profitable airline and throw all the highly experienced 737 pilots on the street and make them re-interview for a job...underneath you." I think that is what Ty was getting at. Guys like you that "have ours" are more than willing to throw the rest under the bus to advance themselves. How did you get through the interview process at SWA? I doubt SWA wants Alaska but wouldn't a decent person want a fair integration that works out for most?

That is not my point....

I have no problem with fair...but please define it?

You can't accept the fact that that above situation CAN happen...nobody says it is right or wrong or will for that matter.

Bringing people on that otherwise would not meet the requirements to work here or better yet interviewed and was turned down for whatever reason, I do have a problem with.

For the record I had been turned down 1 time from SWA before getting on and been turned down by another LCC airline that is out there today so I am not bashing someone for being turned down.

For argument sake what if it was not a "BIG" aircraft airline like Alaska or Frontier...what if it was a small regional...would you feel the same about fair integration where an RJ Capt is now a senior 737 Capt....is that fair?

 

[Old School 737]

Would a possible Alaska / SWA merger, purchase, whatever, have to follow the pilot seniority protocall of the Alliganie/Mohawk law. What ever that may be. Any one with a quick over view of what it says?

 

[RedDogC130]

It depends on the wording of the purchase...do they just buy assets, the whole thing...merge it...there are just too many variables....look what SWA did with the whole ATA and LGA slot and whatever other assests they claim to have bought...was that decision right? I won't say yes or no....but it is $$ business

 

[Mamma]

That is not my point....

I have no problem with fair...but please define it?

You can't accept the fact that that above situation CAN happen...nobody says it is right or wrong or will for that matter.

Bringing people on that otherwise would not meet the requirements to work here or better yet interviewed and was turned down for whatever reason, I do have a problem with.

For the record I had been turned down 1 time from SWA before getting on and been turned down by another LCC airline that is out there today so I am not bashing someone for being turned down.

For argument sake what if it was not a "BIG" aircraft airline like Alaska or Frontier...what if it was a small regional...would you feel the same about fair integration where an RJ Capt is now a senior 737 Capt....is that fair?

Unqualified? Most of us have 737 types and a ton of experience flying RNP, arctic, Mexico, Hawaii, and much of the US. All I was saying is you seem to be the type of guy who, while walking with his wife, eyes a beautiful woman and says "Boy would I like to tap that!" True, yes. Appropriate, no. In regards to fair, I was just talking about SWA and ALK. Same airframes and level.

 

[Old School 737]

Spoken like a real ****************************** and it says a lot about the SWA of today.

Alaska is a viable, operating major airline. You would either have a list integration, or you would be sitting around wondering why you just inherited 150 airframes and no pilots to fly them.

We only have 113 airframes.

 

[RedDogC130]

Unqualified? Most of us have 737 types and a ton of experience flying RNP, arctic, Mexico, Hawaii, and much of the US. All I was saying is you seem to be the type of guy who, while walking with his wife, eyes a beautiful woman and says "Boy would I like to tap that!" True, yes. Appropriate, no. In regards to fair, I was just talking about SWA and ALK. Same airframes and level.

I am not talking about Alaska as a specific airline...I am talking in general...you obviously are not getting what I am saying...which is fine...I hear you...and the wife comment is a bit out of line...if she is hot she is hot.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I'd have to agree. The 737 type rating is not an issue at Alaska because ALL our guys have them. And considering the amount of crapola our training department throws at us every recurrent, I'd venture a guess that crosstraining to the SWA system isn't an issue.

And while its true that in the past, SWA has "given pilots interviews" part of the reason was to eliminate people SWA had rejected.

The ATA model is flawed because a large number of their pilots were not current in the 737.

We're all current and qualified. While DoH is not a component of Allegheny-Mohawk, some sort of ratioed integration would be the fairest way to go. After all, there are no "career expectation" issues since all either of us could aspire to is a 737 left seat.

Now, if we could only convince you guys to clean up all the B.S. on your EFIS displays, life would be grand!

 

[RedDogC130]

That I will agree with