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Southwest and Frontier?

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Ty Webb said:
Spoken like a real ****************************** and it says a lot about the SWA of today.

Alaska is a viable, operating major airline. You would either have a list integration, or you would be sitting around wondering why you just inherited 150 airframes and no pilots to fly them.
Click to expand...

Don't get pissed at me for saying things that may happen. Just because you do not like the reality of a certain situation please do not hide under a blanket hoping it would go away. I am not saying any of this would happen...it just could....would I like to see anymore pilots ahead of me on my senority list...NO. Would you? The fact that some of these pilots would not even meet the requirments to work here....do you think that all the pilots here have the 737 type for any other particular reason than to lower insurance for the company...that is the only reason I can see it....how many of these people at these other airlines have the type and the general PIC that the company hires for? Especially at any regional. So this would not be an easy integration at all....I personally do not see the company purchasing anyone right now...your right who am I to know anything.
 
RedDogC130 said:
I am not saying any of this would happen...it just could....would I like to see anymore pilots ahead of me on my senority list...NO. Would you?
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true a$$h0le. What you are saying is "Let's buy up a profitable airline and throw all the highly experienced 737 pilots on the street and make them re-interview for a job...underneath you." I think that is what Ty was getting at. Guys like you that "have ours" are more than willing to throw the rest under the bus to advance themselves. How did you get through the interview process at SWA? I doubt SWA wants Alaska but wouldn't a decent person want a fair integration that works out for most?
 
Mamma said:
Spoken like a true a$$h0le. What you are saying is "Let's buy up a profitable airline and throw all the highly experienced 737 pilots on the street and make them re-interview for a job...underneath you." I think that is what Ty was getting at. Guys like you that "have ours" are more than willing to throw the rest under the bus to advance themselves. How did you get through the interview process at SWA? I doubt SWA wants Alaska but wouldn't a decent person want a fair integration that works out for most?
Click to expand...

That is not my point....

I have no problem with fair...but please define it?

You can't accept the fact that that above situation CAN happen...nobody says it is right or wrong or will for that matter.

Bringing people on that otherwise would not meet the requirements to work here or better yet interviewed and was turned down for whatever reason, I do have a problem with.

For the record I had been turned down 1 time from SWA before getting on and been turned down by another LCC airline that is out there today so I am not bashing someone for being turned down.

For argument sake what if it was not a "BIG" aircraft airline like Alaska or Frontier...what if it was a small regional...would you feel the same about fair integration where an RJ Capt is now a senior 737 Capt....is that fair?
 
Last edited:
Would a possible Alaska / SWA merger, purchase, whatever, have to follow the pilot seniority protocall of the Alliganie/Mohawk law. What ever that may be. Any one with a quick over view of what it says?
 
It depends on the wording of the purchase...do they just buy assets, the whole thing...merge it...there are just too many variables....look what SWA did with the whole ATA and LGA slot and whatever other assests they claim to have bought...was that decision right? I won't say yes or no....but it is $$ business
 
RedDogC130 said:
That is not my point....

I have no problem with fair...but please define it?

You can't accept the fact that that above situation CAN happen...nobody says it is right or wrong or will for that matter.

Bringing people on that otherwise would not meet the requirements to work here or better yet interviewed and was turned down for whatever reason, I do have a problem with.

For the record I had been turned down 1 time from SWA before getting on and been turned down by another LCC airline that is out there today so I am not bashing someone for being turned down.

For argument sake what if it was not a "BIG" aircraft airline like Alaska or Frontier...what if it was a small regional...would you feel the same about fair integration where an RJ Capt is now a senior 737 Capt....is that fair?
Click to expand...

Unqualified? Most of us have 737 types and a ton of experience flying RNP, arctic, Mexico, Hawaii, and much of the US. All I was saying is you seem to be the type of guy who, while walking with his wife, eyes a beautiful woman and says "Boy would I like to tap that!" True, yes. Appropriate, no. In regards to fair, I was just talking about SWA and ALK. Same airframes and level.
 
Ty Webb said:
Spoken like a real ****************************** and it says a lot about the SWA of today.

Alaska is a viable, operating major airline. You would either have a list integration, or you would be sitting around wondering why you just inherited 150 airframes and no pilots to fly them.
Click to expand...

We only have 113 airframes.
 
Mamma said:
Unqualified? Most of us have 737 types and a ton of experience flying RNP, arctic, Mexico, Hawaii, and much of the US. All I was saying is you seem to be the type of guy who, while walking with his wife, eyes a beautiful woman and says "Boy would I like to tap that!" True, yes. Appropriate, no. In regards to fair, I was just talking about SWA and ALK. Same airframes and level.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about Alaska as a specific airline...I am talking in general...you obviously are not getting what I am saying...which is fine...I hear you...and the wife comment is a bit out of line...if she is hot she is hot.
 
I'd have to agree. The 737 type rating is not an issue at Alaska because ALL our guys have them. And considering the amount of crapola our training department throws at us every recurrent, I'd venture a guess that crosstraining to the SWA system isn't an issue.

And while its true that in the past, SWA has "given pilots interviews" part of the reason was to eliminate people SWA had rejected.

The ATA model is flawed because a large number of their pilots were not current in the 737.

We're all current and qualified. While DoH is not a component of Allegheny-Mohawk, some sort of ratioed integration would be the fairest way to go. After all, there are no "career expectation" issues since all either of us could aspire to is a 737 left seat.

Now, if we could only convince you guys to clean up all the B.S. on your EFIS displays, life would be grand!
 
The lamest thing I have seen at SWA is having the FO call out the RA as you come down the glide slope. 500,400,300,200, enough already!!!!
 
The only way you'll ever see swa attempt to acquire any other airline is if someone else tries it first. example: some other airline strolls into Denver to buy Frontier, then you'll see GK in the bidding and only then.
 
Fubijaakr said:
I'd have to agree. The 737 type rating is not an issue at Alaska because ALL our guys have them. And considering the amount of crapola our training department throws at us every recurrent, I'd venture a guess that crosstraining to the SWA system isn't an issue.

And while its true that in the past, SWA has "given pilots interviews" part of the reason was to eliminate people SWA had rejected.

The ATA model is flawed because a large number of their pilots were not current in the 737.

We're all current and qualified. While DoH is not a component of Allegheny-Mohawk, some sort of ratioed integration would be the fairest way to go. After all, there are no "career expectation" issues since all either of us could aspire to is a 737 left seat.

Now, if we could only convince you guys to clean up all the B.S. on your EFIS displays, life would be grand!
Click to expand...

Folks,

I have no idea if anything is in the offing. That being said, there is no such thing as a "fair and equitable" integration, whether you talk allegheny/mohawk or whatever. What is fair to one group will not be fair to the other group. Don't forget about the Bond/McKaskill (sp?) amendment concerning mergers/purchases...and don't forget about the "fair and equitable" integration between TWA and aa. If you are not familiar, I suggest you get that way, and soon.
 
The Victors said:
The only way you'll ever see swa attempt to acquire any other airline is if someone else tries it first. example: some other airline strolls into Denver to buy Frontier, then you'll see GK in the bidding and only then.
Click to expand...

Since we all think Delta is buying us then might this be the response from SWA. Get them before Delta does??
 
I am in complete disagreement on the appropriateness of telling your wife you want to tap this girl or that girl. You should be able to tell your wife anything. Ideally, your wife should be asking you,"Honey, would you like to tap that?" Now if you responded with,"Hell, yeah...she's WAY hotter than you!" then you're just stupid.
 
Daddy said:
I am in complete disagreement on the appropriateness of telling your wife you want to tap this girl or that girl. You should be able to tell your wife anything. Ideally, your wife should be asking you,"Honey, would you like to tap that?" Now if you responded with,"Hell, yeah...she's WAY hotter than you!" then you're just stupid.
Click to expand...

Point taken although I think saying something like this out loud to my wife would be counter-productive in the long run!
 
swa737-700 said:
What is fair to one group will not be fair to the other group. Don't forget about the Bond/McKaskill (sp?) amendment concerning mergers/purchases...and don't forget about the "fair and equitable" integration between TWA and aa. If you are not familiar, I suggest you get that way, and soon.
Click to expand...

TWA/AA was more a matter of the TWA MEC rolling over and playing dead than Allegheny/Mohawk.

Look, you guys have about 6000 pilots. We have 1500.
So, assuming DoH is a non-starter under Allegheny-Mohawk for either party, what's wrong with a 4-1 ratio integration?

4 SWA, 1 AS, 4 SWA, 1 AS and so forth.

Of course, you wouldn't think that's fair since you seem to be a Swingline proponent. However, that's just a bit self-serving, don't you think?

Personally, I liked the way DAL/NWA did it. No one over there lost more than 3 or 4% seniority. That seems acceptable to me.
 
Fubijaakr said:
TWA/AA was more a matter of the TWA MEC rolling over and playing dead than Allegheny/Mohawk.

Look, you guys have about 6000 pilots. We have 1500.
So, assuming DoH is a non-starter under Allegheny-Mohawk for either party, what's wrong with a 4-1 ratio integration?

4 SWA, 1 AS, 4 SWA, 1 AS and so forth.

Of course, you wouldn't think that's fair since you seem to be a Swingline proponent. However, that's just a bit self-serving, don't you think?

Personally, I liked the way DAL/NWA did it. No one over there lost more than 3 or 4% seniority. That seems acceptable to me.
Click to expand...


4-5 to 1 is reasonable...
 
Our BoD would never allow it though because it will "hurt" senior guys more than junior. Stand by to be screwed on this one folks....man, we need a recall
 
Fubijaakr said:
TWA/AA was more a matter of the TWA MEC rolling over and playing dead than Allegheny/Mohawk.

Look, you guys have about 6000 pilots. We have 1500.
So, assuming DoH is a non-starter under Allegheny-Mohawk for either party, what's wrong with a 4-1 ratio integration?

4 SWA, 1 AS, 4 SWA, 1 AS and so forth.

Of course, you wouldn't think that's fair since you seem to be a Swingline proponent. However, that's just a bit self-serving, don't you think?

Personally, I liked the way DAL/NWA did it. No one over there lost more than 3 or 4% seniority. That seems acceptable to me.
Click to expand...

Here we go. Like I said in my first post, get familiar with what REALLY happened with the TWA/aa merger. To suggest the TWA MEC rolled over is absolute BS. It is precisely because they did NOT roll over that the lawsuit continues...ask any of the apa boys...and ALPO national.

4:1 ratio? Sorry, but I doubt it.

Here is some friendly advice from an aviator who has lived this nightmare: Don't worry about this until it happens. This entire string is a rumor!!! The TWA/aa merger is fact. Learn it.
 
swa737-700 said:
Here we go. Like I said in my first post, get familiar with what REALLY happened with the TWA/aa merger. To suggest the TWA MEC rolled over is absolute BS. It is precisely because they did NOT roll over that the lawsuit continues...ask any of the apa boys...and ALPO national.

4:1 ratio? Sorry, but I doubt it.

Here is some friendly advice from an aviator who has lived this nightmare: Don't worry about this until it happens. This entire string is a rumor!!! The TWA/aa merger is fact. Learn it.
Click to expand...

What ratio would you recommend?
 
Fubijaakr said:
TWA/AA was more a matter of the TWA MEC rolling over and playing dead than Allegheny/Mohawk.

Look, you guys have about 6000 pilots. We have 1500.
So, assuming DoH is a non-starter under Allegheny-Mohawk for either party, what's wrong with a 4-1 ratio integration?

4 SWA, 1 AS, 4 SWA, 1 AS and so forth.
Of course, you wouldn't think that's fair since you seem to be a Swingline proponent. However, that's just a bit self-serving, don't you think?

Personally, I liked the way DAL/NWA did it. No one over there lost more than 3 or 4% seniority. That seems acceptable to me.
Click to expand...

I am just one vote but I think that is more than fair. JMO
 
Fubijaakr said:
...Besides, a SWA buyout would be the BEST thing that could happen to Alaska pilots.
Click to expand...

I think you need to speak for yourself. There are a probably a lot of Alaska pilots that at one time or another would have loved to have been SWA pilots, however, hate to break the news to everybody but not EVERYBODY wants to fly for SWA.

The only reason SWA has the highest paid pilots right now is because the rest of us came down to SWA's level not because SWA is the one that somehow raised the bar.

I like having a retirement other than profit sharing and a stingy 401k match.

I like flying airplanes with a lot of the bells and whistles...

I like that we have a culture in which it is NOT okay to taxi at speeds approaching V1.

I'd be perfectly fine if SWA didn't buy us...and I definetly wouldn't feel like it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
 
Well, IF it happened you could always quit.
 

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