Some Delta/NWA route swaps......

[General Lee]

As someone junior out west, The smallest gauge a/c we have is the 73 (LAX) and the M90(SLC), which is what most of us junior folks are on. We have no where else to bid down to. I'd be more than happy to fly a CRJ if they build a base out west. So unless they're building a comparable sized new fleet out in the west, i.e. SLC A320, SEA 7ER... that equates to the net loss to our current SLC/LAX fleets, we'll be flushed out to ATL MD88, or even JFK MD88. And once SOC completes (which we know it's sooner rather than later), and all of our west coast bases open up, most of the FDL will lose some base seniority, and in the case of us junior folks, we'll find to like ATL/DTW/MSP for a while.

I chose DL over NWA because of the west coast presence, and I knew I was lucky enough to get a seat in the west coast so early in my career. From one of the CP, displacement is coming in Jan, so if I'm getting bumped from the "cascading" effect, i.e. 7ER->767->737->m90, so be it. I know we're in a very envious position among our peers, and I'm grateful to still have a job at the end of this year.

I don't see a lot of DL guys bumping you out of LAX, vs FNWA guys wanting to bid into LAX. If there is no bump and flush from FNWA guys, then I think you will be okay. I see SEA opening up with an 76ER base, and some DL pilots from both LA and SLC bidding that. Any pilots in SLC will likely bid down to smaller planes to stay there, or bid SEA. LAX could be expensive for other DL pilots, especially for reserve with 3 airports, so many will avoid it if they don't live there already. Again, if NWA guys can't bump and flush, and you are on the smallest plane there, then I think you would be okay, as long as DL pilots above you don't bump you out.

I see A320s and A330s moving to SLC eventually, and some MD90s going to MSP, but none of those are on the fence list, and SLC has a lot of senior DL pilots there too. We'll see....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

I heard this one will take care of the "extra fat" in the 767 and 76ER categories in ATL. They are very short on MD88 FOs, and this will equal it out. There will also be some entitlements for 777 A and B slots too supposedly.

Bye Bye--General Lee

What a coincidence - we are going to be displacing a few off of the 757 due to some temporary reductions in that flying and use them to back fill increased flying on the 320 and DC9 (F/O's. mainly)...also continued return displacement and awards for DC9 Captain.

 

[FBN0223]

Any Delta guys care to do some enlightening on your bid system. PBS right?

some questions if you have time.

1) Does your bid system allow for award bids and avoid bids when submitting bids? Ex Award: Days, trip number, pilot numbers, city layovers, trip credit. Ex Avoid: days on, trip numbers, pilot numbers, red-eyes, layover city, landing city, DHs. Just to name a few of each that we have at NWA.

2) Not certain how the "no permanent reserve system" works. How about SLC B757/767 B list for example. Is it that everyone in the B position is on the same list and your schedule or lack of one is determined by seniority? Those who end up with no trips are reserve? If I have that close to correct, how far up does one typically need to be on the list to hold a schedule in percentages?

I am sure it's a good bid system just a bit foreign to me. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[General Lee]

Any Delta guys care to do some enlightening on your bid system. PBS right?

some questions if you have time.

1) Does your bid system allow for award bids and avoid bids when submitting bids? Ex Award: Days, trip number, pilot numbers, city layovers, trip credit. Ex Avoid: days on, trip numbers, pilot numbers, red-eyes, layover city, landing city, DHs. Just to name a few of each that we have at NWA.

2) Not certain how the "no permanent reserve system" works. How about SLC B757/767 B list for example. Is it that everyone in the B position is on the same list and your schedule or lack of one is determined by seniority? Those who end up with no trips are reserve? If I have that close to correct, how far up does one typically need to be on the list to hold a schedule in percentages?

I am sure it's a good bid system just a bit foreign to me. Thanks for any feedback.

It's a good PBS system, and the more senior you are, the more likely you will get what you want. There are a lot of qualifiers, and you can put down 75 bid choices total I believe. That includes days off wanted, specific trips, duty in times and duty out times, trips with specific planes (like only 757 flying vs 767 flying mixed in), specific layovers, etc. You can make it complex, or make it noncomplex, and the computer will try to satisfy your request with your seniority in mind. It takes a few bids to get used to, but after awhile it is pretty easy. Seniority helps, and being specific on what you want.

As far as SLC goes for the 767B postion, your seniority in base determines what you get. There are a certain number of trips alotted, and depending on your seniority, you will get whatever you bid and can hold. You can put in qualifiers for only 3 day trips, or 4 day trips, etc. You can try to get the ANC 3 day with an allnighter on the back end. The sky is the limit when you have seniority. If you are a reserve, I think you bid on a seperate deal for the reserve lines (I haven't been a reserve in awhile...).

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetjockey#1]

I heard this one will take care of the "extra fat" in the 767 and 76ER categories in ATL. They are very short on MD88 FOs, and this will equal it out. There will also be some entitlements for 777 A and B slots too supposedly.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Are you insinuating an AE is coming out? any details?

 

[~~~^~~~]

"Extra Fat?" I think all the 767 reserves went over 70 hours this month. Many hit the green slip triggers.

The 767 is not as short as the 88, still, they are banking on greenslips for coverage.

General, you talking about a future pull back creating fat? I had heard they were looking at summer bookings and if the summer of 09 looked weak they would execute the displacements. Has that decision been made?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The decision will be made right before they hit the publish button on the AE.
They are in fact planning on displacements, but they may be from other places than just the ATL 767 and ER.
We will all know in a few weeks. KB will know more as the AE approaches.

 

[General Lee]

All I heard from an assistant CP type was that we are still short on the 88, and that we are fat on the 76B (probably the ER), and that we would have a displacement to fix that problem, probably in JAN. I know that is "nebulous", but that is all I got talking to him. I think they are still looking at the bookings and trying to figure out this economy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetjockey#1]

I wonder how do they plan on covering the summer schedule on the ER if they displace people. Last summer there were offering green slips, and IAs just about every day. Unless they park a bunch of planes they will be extremely short on the ER. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[General Lee]

I wonder how do they plan on covering the summer schedule on the ER if they displace people. Last summer there were offering green slips, and IAs just about every day. Unless they park a bunch of planes they will be extremely short on the ER. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I think initially there are going to be a lot of DHs, with a DH to MSP for an initial layover, and then onto CDG etc. Same with the FNWA pilots, they will DH to ATL and layover downtown, and then fly to AMS or LGW etc. They will do that until the Fall, and then move people around I would guess.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetjockey#1]

I think initially there are going to be a lot of DHs, with a DH to MSP for an initial layover, and then onto CDG etc. Same with the FNWA pilots, they will DH to ATL and layover downtown, and then fly to AMS or LGW etc. They will do that until the Fall, and then move people around I would guess.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That sounds reasonable, give everybody one more summer before a huge wave of training, let's enjoy it while we can.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If they really are moving Delta's 88's and 757's out of Atlanta, then they got to back fill with something other than RJ's (although they did just announce another 10 CRJ900's are coming to ATL). I'm guessing A320's and DC9's would be headed south ... probably what I'm really trying to figure out is what is the net effect on pilots' ability to hold the Atlanta base? Anyone know?

I'm guessing the DC9 would not go that senior in ATL

 

[General Lee]

If they really are moving Delta's 88's and 757's out of Atlanta, then they got to back fill with something other than RJ's (although they did just announce another 10 CRJ900's are coming to ATL).

I'm guessing A320's and DC9's would be headed south ... probably what I'm really trying to figure out is what is the net effect on pilots' ability to hold the Atlanta base? Anyone know?

I don't think they will be moving 757s North, more likely MD88s. I can see DC9s coming into ATL, but not a base, rather just more flights through here. I see A330s and 744s having a base here, and 767ERs moving to SEA and MSP. I don't know if they would come from ATL or JFK, but there is bound to be some loss of positions if the A330s do replace some routes. I think the A320s will stay in MSP/DTW/MEM, but also set up shop in SLC---doing some Montana flying that we lost to the RJs (the last day of a 4 day trip might consist of LGA-MSP-BZN-SLC on an A319). The reason the MD88 or MD90s would go to MSP is because they can hit both coasts from there, whereas they cannot now from SLC.(there will also probably be some A330 flying from SLC--NRT, CDG, AMS) JFK will probably get some A330 flying too, and maybe MSP or DTW could get 777 flying, to replace the 744s going to ATL. SEA will get bigger as a base probably with the addition of 76ERs, and that will take some flying from JFK on those ERs, and be replaced with A330s. Most of this is speculation with some hints from certain people that may know what they are talking about... It will be interesting to see.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

The A330 and 744 will go predictably senior. The 767ER apparently does most of what NWA was going to use the 787 for. Routes they have decided to put on hold (China comes to mind) probably also takes the heat off the 787 purchase.

Sounds like you think the number of pilots in Atlanta is about to get seriously pulled down.

Anyone know Delta's past practice about allowing voluntary furlough, or leave? Seems like letting us bypass would save money compared to three trips to the school house.

 

[3ds]

I don't think they will be moving 757s North, more likely MD88s. I can see DC9s coming into ATL, but not a base, rather just more flights through here. I see A330s and 744s having a base here, and 767ERs moving to SEA and MSP. I don't know if they would come from ATL or JFK, but there is bound to be some loss of positions if the A330s do replace some routes. I think the A320s will stay in MSP/DTW/MEM, but also set up shop in SLC---doing some Montana flying that we lost to the RJs (the last day of a 4 day trip might consist of LGA-MSP-BZN-SLC on an A319). The reason the MD88 or MD90s would go to MSP is because they can hit both coasts from there, whereas they cannot now from SLC.(there will also probably be some A330 flying from SLC--NRT, CDG, AMS) JFK will probably get some A330 flying too, and maybe MSP or DTW could get 777 flying, to replace the 744s going to ATL. SEA will get bigger as a base probably with the addition of 76ERs, and that will take some flying from JFK on those ERs, and be replaced with A330s. Most of this is speculation with some hints from certain people that may know what they are talking about... It will be interesting to see.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

and ANC with the freighters? should the pilots up there start looking at commutes to SEA?

 

[General Lee]

and ANC with the freighters? should the pilots up there start looking at commutes to SEA?

I hope it sticks around, but I don't know yet. Lot's of discussions going on....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[another cfii]

It sounds to me from the higher ups that the displacement is more than likely to happen in Jan. (I really hope our CPs can spill the beans a bit more often and willing It is gonna be interesting if they start moving the DC9 into ATL, A320 into SLC, and this displacement reflects a shuffle of a/c, let's say, M88/767 out of ATL, M90 out of SLC, to MSP/DTW.
Are they gonna try to complete SOC so that everybody (FNWA and FDAL) will be eligible to bid on this same AE?

Or they'll just post a similar AE/disp at the FNWA side and even things out? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Happy New Year!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I do not see anything moving yet. We are talking about after SOC before we see the bases opening up. Right now you will just see displacements.
Now that was as of a few weeks ago, so that can change to. But, with the lack of tall fences there is no need to incur two major training cycles to get it right. Waiting a few months until after SOC will allow them to do it right and do it only once.

 

[Superpilot92]

Just heard today that the NWA side, as stands today, we will be short pilots come this summer. Going to be an interesting year.

 

[NuGuy]

Just heard today that the NWA side, as stands today, we will be short pilots come this summer. Going to be an interesting year.

Agreed.

Also new news: FAs are going to get bases in ATL and SLC in 1Q '09. Not rumor, either, but posted in the FA areas in DTW. Can FNW pilot bases be far behind?

Nu