So what's the story on this latest 400 flameout?

[pamed19]

Check your facts, the guys into JAX didn't get the engines re-lit if I remember right.

If it is Prist deal it would seem to be an easy fix, but it keeps happening.

Pamed19 is correct, one of these times, someone is going to crap out on one of these flameouts it is only a matter of time.

The JAX incident was a dead stick landing under adverse weather conditions. The Pilots were magnificent in my opinon.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Check your facts, the guys into JAX didn't get the engines re-lit if I remember right.

If it is Prist deal it would seem to be an easy fix, but it keeps happening.

Pamed19 is correct, one of these times, someone is going to crap out on one of these flameouts it is only a matter of time.

I thought that the JAX incident was without engines as well. One of these times it wont work, like you say....hopefully it's not going to happen to anyone ferrying one to Europe either...

 

[RNObased]

The JAX incident was a dead stick landing under adverse weather conditions. The Pilots were magnificent in my opinon.

A job well done in my opinon also....

 

[cjdriver]

Jax was marginal vfr, they got vectored to the ILS and made it in. Magnificent. No doubt professional pilots are way under paid.

 

[WrknStff]

I just find it amazing that these incidents have all happened recently and in a relatively short period of time. These planes have flown for years and years without problems. Makes me think that it is something outside the basic design of the airplane thats flawed. Although if you ask me, saving money on a design by relying on anti-ice in the fuel has always been a bad idea considering some of the line monkeys I've seen out there.

 

[pamed19]

I just find it amazing that these incidents have all happened recently and in a relatively short period of time. These planes have flown for years and years without problems. Makes me think that it is something outside the basic design of the airplane thats flawed. Although if you ask me, saving money on a design by relying on anti-ice in the fuel has always been a bad idea considering some of the line monkeys I've seen out there.

How do we get to the cause? Does the FAA/NTSB do that or is the Raytheon responsible?Will the aircraft keep flying if no cause is found?

 

[WrknStff]

The NTSB has a team working with Pratt & Whitney, Raytheon and the operators to try and figure out what the deal is. If they can't figure something out for sure they'll probably come up with a couple of fixes that covers the the most likely causes and require changes in operations/equipment to cover them.

 

[Correcting]

There is absolutely no way that this is an issue of lack of additive in the fuel. Think of all the millions of flight hours that aircraft requiring prist have had without incident. Now, suddenly 3 Beechjets in less than 2 years have dual flameouts and it's a prist incident? That's bullsheet.

 

[doublepsych]

Correcting,

I'm with you, I just don't buy the prist explanation, just from a common sense standpoint. I guess the question is, what has changed that is causing/allowing this to occur, when for so long with the Diamond/Beechjet fleet it did not occur, not to mention the other types with similar characteristics, i.e. aircraft with no fuel heaters, other types with jt15d engines, etc.

It would seem that it would have to be something in the fuel supply to get both engines at exactly the same time. Tank vent lock issues, ice, or something. Even with gelling fuel, I would expect a filter bypass or some other warning prior to flameout...who knows...I guess iced stators is plausible, but it seems to me that you would have to be in a pretty narrow set of environmental conditions for quite a while, not to mention that this would have likely occured before the first incident in 2004.

I fly a 400A part 91, and I have spoken with some contacts within Raytheon and FLOPS and I honestly believe that they do not know what the cause is. Yet. May never. If they do, they are not saying. It would be nice to know...

 

[dime line]

""There is absolutely no way that this is an issue of lack of additive in the fuel.""

Actually the first FLOPS BJ (the one over the Gulf) was very light on Prist, I don't remember the number, but it was well below what was suppose to be there. Did that make the motors quit? Don't know, but at least it was a place to start with.

""Think of all the millions of flight hours that aircraft requiring prist have had without incident.""

I'm right there with you, but it only takes one line guy to forget Prist, and a trip up at altitude for a long time, and there you have it. And we all know the brains of some ot the line guys.

""If they do, they are not saying""

I wish that we did, this is an FAA and Pratt & Whitney investigation, not FLOPS. I have to fly the BJ 16 days a month, and I now think a little differently than before.