So what's the story on this latest 400 flameout?

[tk855]

What is a FSI recurrent?The only background I have in this area is "passenger".Also ICT.I will say that this board is teaching me many things about aircraft that I had no idea existed!

FSI recurrent = Flight Safety International recurrent flight training

ICT = KICT = the airport identifier for Wichita, Kansas.

Flight Safety has a building located right next to Beech Field in Wichita where pilots go for classroom/simulator training for Raytheon products, including the 400. This FSI location has a very close relationship with Raytheon and seems to be privvy to most information that Raytheon has regarding problems/quirks with the Beechjet.

 

[pamed19]

"FSI recurrent" is recurrent flight training that is, in this case, conducted by FSI - Flight Safety International. FSI is one of the large pilot training providers. Recurrent training is required by the FAA of captains every 6 months and many of the fractionals put their first officers through the same or similar training on a 6-to-12 month rotation. Recurrent training includes ground school to review systems, performance, etc. along with simulator training emphasizing emergency situations. This training culminates in an oral exam and a checkride in the simulator.

Thanks

 

[ozpilot]

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[dime line]

Pamed19.....You need to talk to the guy that's has been flying the beechjet for 5-7 yrs, yes the same people that fly you, and that have been flying you for as long as you have owned your share. We will tell you everything you want to know about the company, and the plane. PM me if you have any questions. Just so you know I have flown the BJ glider plane, post being a glider!

 

[pamed19]

I do talk to them and others at Flops.Great people.Very helpful.What bothers me is not knowing what is causing this problem.It keeps happening and no one has an answer.These dead stick landings cannot be sucessful forever,no matter how good you guys are.

 

[gunfyter]

NJA sent this information out to their 400XP pilots in a confidential email the day after the incident happened. NJA received the information from Raytheon, I believe.

Not "confidential" any more...

 

[glasspilot]

I do talk to them and others at Flops.Great people.Very helpful.What bothers me is not knowing what is causing this problem.It keeps happening and no one has an answer.These dead stick landings cannot be successful forever,no matter how good you guys are.

The good news is that they haven't yet seemed to need to do a "dead stick landing". It looks like each time they have gotten one or both engines to relight. This also would seem to lend itself to the PRIST theory. PRIST helps keep Jet fuel from freezing. If the PRIST to fuel mixture was incorrect the fuel might freeze at high altitudes and cause an engine failure. Since both engines draw from the same fuel you can imagine that if one fails they both will fail. Now as the airplane descends to warmer air the fuel thaws and the engines relight.

I'm not saying this is what happened but it seems plausible.

 

[Hawk Driver]

The company that makes PRIST would prefer you to use the term "Anti-icing Addititive." I worked with a media company on this issue awhile back and they were TOLD to stop using the term PRIST. PRIST is like saying, "hand me a Kleenex or make me a Xerox copy of the this..." There are several manufacturer's that make the addititive.

"Think OPSEC"

HD

 

[RNObased]

The good news is that they haven't yet seemed to need to do a "dead stick landing". It looks like each time they have gotten one or both engines to relight. This also would seem to lend itself to the PRIST theory. PRIST helps keep Jet fuel from freezing. If the PRIST to fuel mixture was incorrect the fuel might freeze at high altitudes and cause an engine failure. Since both engines draw from the same fuel you can imagine that if one fails they both will fail. Now as the airplane descends to warmer air the fuel thaws and the engines relight.

I'm not saying this is what happened but it seems plausible.

Check your facts, the guys into JAX didn't get the engines re-lit if I remember right.

If it is Prist deal it would seem to be an easy fix, but it keeps happening.

Pamed19 is correct, one of these times, someone is going to crap out on one of these flameouts it is only a matter of time.

 

[tk855]

Not "confidential" any more...

Sure it is, none of the information has been divulged, just acknowledgment that it was sent.

 

[pamed19]

Check your facts, the guys into JAX didn't get the engines re-lit if I remember right.

If it is Prist deal it would seem to be an easy fix, but it keeps happening.

Pamed19 is correct, one of these times, someone is going to crap out on one of these flameouts it is only a matter of time.

The JAX incident was a dead stick landing under adverse weather conditions. The Pilots were magnificent in my opinon.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Check your facts, the guys into JAX didn't get the engines re-lit if I remember right.

If it is Prist deal it would seem to be an easy fix, but it keeps happening.

Pamed19 is correct, one of these times, someone is going to crap out on one of these flameouts it is only a matter of time.

I thought that the JAX incident was without engines as well. One of these times it wont work, like you say....hopefully it's not going to happen to anyone ferrying one to Europe either...

 

[RNObased]

The JAX incident was a dead stick landing under adverse weather conditions. The Pilots were magnificent in my opinon.

A job well done in my opinon also....

 

[cjdriver]

Jax was marginal vfr, they got vectored to the ILS and made it in. Magnificent. No doubt professional pilots are way under paid.

 

[WrknStff]

I just find it amazing that these incidents have all happened recently and in a relatively short period of time. These planes have flown for years and years without problems. Makes me think that it is something outside the basic design of the airplane thats flawed. Although if you ask me, saving money on a design by relying on anti-ice in the fuel has always been a bad idea considering some of the line monkeys I've seen out there.