So what's the story on this latest 400 flameout?

[WrknStff]

Well I'm not sure about this most recent one, but I know the others had one main thing in common, a power reduction to descend after a long flight at high altitude. The stopgap measures put out by FLOPS is to put the engine ignitions and boost pumps on before initiating a descent. I don't know if that advice has gotten out to all the other BE400 operators, but it can't hurt. Pesonally if I was back in a bj after spending a long flight at high altitude, I would definately pull the throttles back pretty darn slowly and maybe one at a time even. Luckily, I've moved on to better things now (especially an APU, mmmm.... a/c).

 

[SabreFlyR]

Well I'm not sure about this most recent one, but I know the others had one main thing in common, a power reduction to descend after a long flight at high altitude. The stopgap measures put out by FLOPS is to put the engine ignitions and boost pumps on before initiating a descent. I don't know if that advice has gotten out to all the other BE400 operators, but it can't hurt. Pesonally if I was back in a bj after spending a long flight at high altitude, I would definately pull the throttles back pretty darn slowly and maybe one at a time even. Luckily, I've moved on to better things now (especially an APU, mmmm.... a/c).

Good advice, we operate BJ and have adjusted our decents to minimize power reductions also and we never let the fuelers begin fueling until we confirm that there is prist in the jug and can show us that it is flowing. Of course if its premixed, you can only hope.

 

[beechjetpilot1]

I just don't go above 320 anymore unless I absolutely have to in the beechjet. I have been flying it for 7 years, and this problem concerns me. Flops has us turn on the engine heat and boost pumps when starting a descent from cruise. Problem is that you have to pull back power in order to turn on engine heat, so most of us turn on ignitors first, then boost pumps, then slowly pull back power below 90% so we can turn on engine heat. I don't know it this procedure does much, but at least the ignitors are on? My real problem is a lack of information from P&W and Raytheon with this issue. There has been a long silence with no answers....so for me...fly low and enjoy the scenery!

 

[cjdriver]

I know for a fact that the fuel filter bypasses I got in both the CJ and the Hawker were due to bad fuel. I've had several in the CJ, including at least two dual bypasses. Each requiring a precautionary landing. The check list states 'consider the possibility of partial or total loss of both engines thrust'. This was a big problem in the CJ, requiring sumping of fuel every morning. It's bad fuel. I think the oil companies and distribution chain just aren't making enough profit to provide quality product, they need to raise their prices.

 

[RNObased]

My real problem is a lack of information from P&W and Raytheon with this issue. There has been a long silence with no answers....so for me...fly low and enjoy the scenery!

The silence is deafening.... That is a major problem for me also. As for FLOPS procedures, I suppose anything is worth a shot at keeping both of them turning. God knows there is very little guidence coming from the engine or airframe maker.

 

[Gwadwerc]

Deja Vu all over again...

[FONT=&quot]Quote: I just find it amazing that these incidents have all happened recently and in a relatively short period of time. These planes have flown for years and years without problems. Makes me think that it is something outside the basic design of the airplane thats flawed. Although if you ask me, saving money on a design by relying on anti-ice in the fuel has always been a bad idea considering some of the line monkeys I've seen out there. Unquote

Let me say first I don't know squat about the BJ. As far as basic design goes, sometimes things don't turn up for years. The KC-135 had been flying 30 years when they started blowing up in the late 80s. 3 or 4 in under 5 years, if memory serves me. Finally traced it to an in-tank fuel pump which had "lifetime lubricated" bearings. These pumps were not required to be inspected on any maintenance schedule. Whaddaya know, after 30 years, the bearings were wearing out, overheating, and igniting an explosion when the fuel level decreased to the point that the pump came in contact with fuel vapor. Boeing has always had great engineers, but what engineer in the 1950s would have ever thought that someone would fly a given tail number for 30 years?

Again, if memory serves me, the temporary fix was to prohibit burning the fuel below the point where the pumps woudl be uncovered in level flight, and pulling the breakers on the pumps before descent. Eventually all the pumps were replaced. Hopefully they're required to get periodic inspections...
[/FONT]

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

Just came across this thread, but found it interesting. Not having much experience in bizjets (just a 3-month internship at NJA) I've noticed the following: the NTSB initial reports that a member posted earlier both suggest dual-engine flamouts when aircraft were at high altitudes and given clearance for decents. This would put the plane from a fairly high engine power setting to nearly idle, correct (I'm not a pilot either, but on my obersative time in the CRJ, when a decent is given, power is reduced to near idle)? Does the BeechJet and it's engines have a history of engine core lock? Are the engine given a grind in procedure?

For those not familar with the phenomenon, it's when the engine is shut down suddenly at high torque, high altitude, and it isn't restarted immediately, metal parts inside the engine begin to cool and contract at different rates. In rare cases, metal can contact metal and prevent the core from rotating freely--core lock.

Just something I found interesting. Hopefully, I haven't intruded on this discussion, and I open this back up to all the NJA and FLOPs drivers for more insight.

 

[gunfyter]

I vote we blame it on Global Warming... Its the only thing they forgot in "An Inconvenient Truth".

 

[Ultra Grump]

gunfyter: 1) Have you seen it? (If not, you're not really qualified to comment on it.) 2) Why do you need to bring your right-wing political agenda into a discussion that clearly doesn't call for it?

Well I'm not sure about this most recent one, but I know the others had one main thing in common, a power reduction to descend after a long flight at high altitude. The stopgap measures put out by FLOPS is to put the engine ignitions and boost pumps on before initiating a descent.

In the latest one, anti-ice was selected on and power reduced. Doesn't say whether they were going to descend, or reducing power in order to turn on the anti-ice. Also doesn't mention ignitions or boost pumps.

 

[WrknStff]

Core lock is apparently what happened in the Jacksonville incident that kept them from being able to restart. As far as I know all the others had successful restarts on at least one of the engines.