So what is the netjets story?

[transpac]

Yes, yes I know. The jet I fly takes off at 174,200 lbs and in my career field a heavy starts with aircraft taking off at 255,000 MGTOW or greater, the definition in executive aviation is different, but that's not the point.

The point is, if what BBJPilot posted is true, NetJets was operating BBJs with low time crews that may have met legal requirements, but certainly didn't meet common sense requirements.

Also, it's my take is that NJA filled the BBJ seats based on seniority, not qualifications. I'm betting that there was no effort to move the "Ultra pilots at NJA with more heavy time than have total," into the BBJ jobs and these guys probably won't live long enough to see a Boeing at NJA and impart all that heavy knowledge.


Muddy

I do believe you're correct that seniority was the determining factor in awarding the BBJ bids. I suspect that SWA will likewise follow a seniority based bid system if they ever obtain larger aircraft. All of the BBJ selectees had several thousand hours jet PIC time and most had international experience. The absence of any newsworthy events involving a NJA BBJ over the past five or so years is pretty good evidence that the process worked. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for all B-737 operators.

 

[Hawkered]

Hey there Muddy,

You don't really fit the profile of a SWAPpy. You seem to lack humility and a sense of respect for your peers. The world is different now...and its time for you to step down off your high horse. You're givin' all my good friends over there a bad name!!

 

[Muddauber]

I suspect that SWA will ... follow a seniority based bid system if they ever obtain larger aircraft.

I don't think Gary Kelly would ever abandon Herb's one airplane formula for success. He's an accountant by trade and our former CFO, by nature he likes to stay with things that show demonstrated profitability.

All of the BBJ selectees had several thousand hours jet PIC time and most had international experience. The absence of any newsworthy events involving a NJA BBJ over the past five or so years is pretty good evidence that the process worked. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for all B-737 operators.

You know, I think that a lot of today's flight safety record can be attributed to the sophistication and reliability of modern aircraft.

Aircraft are designed with systems that feature redundancy in depth and automatically sort through failures. Equipment such as enhanced ground prox and TCAS have made a measurable impact on flight safety as have modern cockpits which automate many pilot functions and reduce workload through anthropomorhic and human factors design as well as enhancing situational awareness through devices such as glass cockpits.

Navigation systems featuring GPS and providing RNP 0.1 accuracy have had a positive impact as well.

Training has made it's contribution to safety with the development of Level D simulators and the emphasis on Cockpit Resource Management. JetBlue managed to field a fleet with the least experienced Airbus crews in the world with no mishaps. The time when time in type is important is when all this stuff stops working or when you encounter atmospheric conditions that won't allow the airplane to fly itself out of danger. Fortunately, the first doesn't happen very often and dispatch normally keeps you out of the second.


Muddy






.

 

[GEXDriver]

Are you saying a 737 is a heavy jet? Maybe to you, but the folks who actually fly heavies think it's a light twin. There are Ultra pilots at NJA with more heavy time than you have total.

It's amazing that Muddy, with his limited experience and all, somehow managed to land himself a $185,000 a year job.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Hmmm how many people do I know who go to fly SWA 737 right out of the cockpit of the F-18 or harrier? And a few right out of the 16500 lb NJA Ultra?

 

[GEXDriver]

Hmmm how many people do I know who go to fly SWA 737 right out of the cockpit of the F-18 or harrier? And a few right out of the 16500 lb NJA Ultra?

Was the guy in the left seat a rookie, too? I believe that's muddy's point.

 

[transpac]

It's amazing that Muddy, with his limited experience and all, somehow managed to land himself a $185,000 a year job.

Muddy is a lucky guy. Such jobs usually result from good preparation coupled with good timing. Of course, who you know sometimes has a little to do with it.

 

[transpac]

Was the guy in the left seat a rookie, too? I believe that's muddy's point.

Don't think I'd call a pilot with 10000+ total and 7500+ jet PIC a rookie. As far as time in type, a SWA Captain will have a bunch. Anywhere else this may or may not be the case. But, as SWA has demonstrated, high time in type doesn't ensure good judgement.

 

[Fracster]

Muddauber,

Just so we get things straight you are the best pilot ever!

Muddy is so over qualified because he flies round dials so he doesnt have to worry about any advanced avionics crapping out unlike jetBlue where losing said avionics would make the unqualified jetBlue crew incapable of completing the flight. And since the training is so superb at jetBlue, again saving those unqualified crews, we can assume that your training at SWA was sh!t because you are an excellent pilot who has never had an incident/accident in your ancient 737 flying the same route day in, day out, day after day.

You take a pilot flying a 737 who upgrades into a 767, 747 or what have you and he is qualified but guys who were flying military aircraft or corporate jets flying with another captain for atleast a year are still unqualified in a 737?

The type of flying the BBJ crews were doing in their first year was more difficult then you will ever do in your SWA career.

 

[GEXDriver]

Muddy is so over qualified because he flies round dials so he doesnt have to worry about any advanced avionics crapping out unlike jetBlue where losing said avionics would make the unqualified jetBlue crew incapable of completing the flight. And since the training is so superb at jetBlue, again saving those unqualified crews, we can assume that your training at SWA was sh!t because you are an excellent pilot who has never had an incident/accident in your ancient 737 flying the same route day in, day out, day after day.

??? Last time I checked Southwest had over 200 New Generation B737-700s.

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH9702/FR9702ab.htm

The type of flying the BBJ crews were doing in their first year was more difficult then you will ever do in your SWA career.

Just checking his profile, maybe Muddy did something more challenging than being a Southwest captain when he was in the military - like flying an F-16 in Iraq.

 

[SkyGirl]

Skygirl:

... perhaps you could expand about the different laws of physics that apply to large airplanes. I must'a been asleep when that was covered during big 'un training.

Sure, you could start with Newton's First Law of Motion otherwise known as the Law of Inertia which basically says that inertia is that quantity which depends solely on mass.

You could next look at the Second Law which can be stated:
F=MA or force equals mass times acceleration.
You can substitute this equation around to see the important part that mass plays in this law.

Finally, I'd check out the Law of Conservation of Energy otherwise known as the First Law of Thermodynamics. I'd look at the part called the Law of Momentum which can be stated:
p=m*v where p equals momentum, m equals mass and v equals velocity.

You get a quick demonstration of these laws by going to any radio controlled model airplane field and watching the impossible things these small aircraft are able do because of their small mass.

_SkyGirl_

 

[Fracster]

Just checking his profile, maybe Muddy did something more challenging than being a Southwest captain when he was in the military - like flying an F-16 in Iraq.

Oh, Im sorry. So the fact he flew a single engine jet single pilot makes him more qualified to fly a 737? I didnt realize this, my mistake.

Flying a corporate jet in a two pilot environment obviously doesnt qualify anyone.

 

[SeaSpray]

Oh, Im sorry. So the fact he flew a single engine jet single pilot makes him more qualified to fly a 737? I didnt realize this, my mistake.

Check his profile dipstick, he flew the T-43 which is a military Boeing 737-200. I've talked to Muddy off-line, he flew the 737 internationally from Ramstein Air Base in Germany where he was assigned to the 58th MAS.

 

[Webslinger]

All in good time for NJI. They WILL get what they deserve.[/QUOTE


Are you for real dude? Why must you flame? Why must you insult you know nothing about? You must be a NJA dispatcher?

 

[steel]

All in good time for NJI. They WILL get what they deserve.[/QUOTE


Are you for real dude? Why must you flame? Why must you insult you know nothing about? You must be a NJA dispatcher?

Hey, you can go cry in your little corner if you want. NJI will be a part of NJA regardless of the outcome of the contract. Like I wrote, they'll be here, stapled below all of us eventually. And that's where they belong. They should have never been started up in the first place. We all know that. They all know that. Eventually, they will be brought to that realism. Eventually, we will all get along, provided they get the coffee and newspapers and catering like they're supposed to. They cost us money due to all of the overlap, etc., etc.....

 

[FamilyGuy]

Hey, you can go cry in your little corner if you want. NJI will be a part of NJA regardless of the outcome of the contract. Like I wrote, they'll be here, stapled below all of us eventually. And that's where they belong. They should have never been started up in the first place. We all know that. They all know that. Eventually, they will be brought to that realism. Eventually, we will all get along, provided they get the coffee and newspapers and catering like they're supposed to. They cost us money due to all of the overlap, etc., etc.....

If you want them in the union so bad, why dont you go down there and try to organize them?

Why are you trying to force them in?

This is America, isnt it? Why dont you ask them if they WANT to be in a union....

 

[Diesel]

ugh the same thing over and over. GET OVER IT FAMILY GUY.

Move on. seriously. It's old allready.

We've hashed this and hashed this, beat the horse, smashed it in the face, kicked it in the nuts.

enough allready move on. God. Do you honestly think you're going to change anything. We are long down this path.

move on.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Heard Moisture lasted only a few minutes in front of the pilots today in recurrent training. They said he looked like he had a tear in his eye as he slurked away. Someone even left him a "Happy Holidays" message for him to cheer him up.

Family Guy, you will not save the company with this message board. Regardless of what is written here, what matters is what the pilots are feeling.

We are pissed.

Every group of pilots that come through CMH are even more unified, even more focused on our goal and more disenchanted with management.

These are the facts.

The company could end this in 10 minutes with an offer that will satisfy the requirements of the pilots at NJA. Nothing else will save this company... ever.

 

[Fracster]

If you want them in the union so bad, why dont you go down there and try to organize them?

Moron, were dont want their pilots just the planes. Where have you been?? For someone who spends all his waking time on this message board you sure are clueless

 

[steel]

If you want them in the union so bad, why dont you go down there and try to organize them?

Why are you trying to force them in?

This is America, isnt it? Why dont you ask them if they WANT to be in a union....

What? I don't want to force anybody into a union. They don't have to come over when we win the single carrier lawsuit. They are free to do what they want to when the time comes, just so they know they will be stapled to the bottom of the list. I welcome increased seniority. Although, I would have to be a little worried about your job, as we won't need nearly as much overlap. Good luck!