So what is the netjets story?

[Diesel]

Say the same thing to familyguy.

He joined up in the military and knew he'd be gone for months at a time.

The difference is we were promised that if we just gave a "little more" to the company we would reap the benefits.

i've given a lot more.

 

[You're right]

I keep hearing about these promises from the company--in all seriousness, enlighten me. Who promised? When? What?

 

[steel]

Just curious Family Guy?





Who said we wanted their pilots?



I'm going to throw something out for you to catch. Did we have enough representation to stop the NJI transaction? No. If we did, then did we have enough pilots who weren't brainwashed at that point who would want to stop it? I doubt it. I'm thinking we are better off now with the transparency from our leadership, with the seasoned veterans from other lives, and with management strengthening our resolve. Please do get ready for the ride, and take your seat in the back where you belong. I believe it's starting to get bumpy now.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Just curious Family Guy?



Who said we wanted their pilots?

Diesel did just a couple days ago, when he posted this:

Sure i want the NJI guys under our umbrella. I want the planes and the pilots. I want to ensure my future by making sure the company can only use NJA pilots to fly any trip. It's called scope. I want to make sure we have a lock tight one.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Dude honestly i thank you for your sacrifice for the country but that's apples and oranges.

It has nothing to do with negotiations or what's going on at NJA.

Nice try Diesel, but it's pertinent and you know it.

You want to spin some sob story about being gone from your family for 7 days at a time, but you conveniently leave out the fact that you then spend the next 7 days WITH your family. Not exactly a tough schedule.

Then you want to insinuate that I haven't spent 7 days away from my family. I have - a full year - and for a lot less money than you make at NetJets.

So dont cry hardship to me.

 

[steel]

Well, with that I would have to disagree.We need pilots who are with us, who are willing to steer this company toward the goal of all of us. We want to provide a service second to none. We want to provide SAFE, RESTED, pilots who aren't afraid of making the tough decisions when the company is "urging" you to do something that is within the "grey" area.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

familyguy you allready know that the contract says only the NJI guys can fly gulfstream 4 derivative there of. G5 for example

Actually, your contract states verbatim:



1.4 Exception to the Scope of this Agreement:



a) The Gulfstream aircraft operated and to be operated by Executive Jet International, Inc.



Any lawyer can read this and make the argument that the G200 is a Gulfstream aircraft, and therefore could be flown by NJI. However, we all know that NetJets had every intention of placing that aircraft in the NJA fleet system.



My point is, if you have anyone to blame, it’s your union leadership of 1996, and then again in 1998, for signing and thus ratifying a legal and binding document which clearly excludes NJI from your union and union antics. You know it, your lawyers know it, and that’s why there isn’t any so-called “Single Carrier Lawsuit” being debated within the US court system as we speak. You’d loose your shorts, and your attorneys told you there were bigger fish to fry than going down this dead end street, otherwise you’d have filed it months ago.



It is just like the Scab threats you tried; The IBT got stuck in a stare down, and you blinked 1st. Instead of letting it boil your blood, NJA pilots should be asking for a “flow-through” program to NJI.

 

[steel]

All in good time for NJI. They WILL get what they deserve.

 

[You're right]

Pulitzer/Catfish Award

[url="http://forums.flightinfo.com/customavatars/avatar10253_2.gif"]http://forums.flightinfo.com/customavatars/avatar10253_2.gif[/url]
TurboJetCpt

Every one, please take your corners for a moment; rest your minds. Now, for the first presentation of the "Pulitzer/Catfish award", which goes to --TurboJetCpt

The legacy of the pilot known as TurboJetCpt started not so long ago with the famous words that now echo through the halls of Bridgeway.

"Just did my NetJets interview...simply awesome! 3-6-2004

....and then, the motivating tongue of TurboJetCpt kicked in. Remember, rest your mind, and enjoy these powerful contributions from your pilot and mine--TurboJetCpt:

"Hey stupid ass"

"stools, fools and hired "help" look like morons"

"just another knucklehead"

"You one funny dumbass...LMFAO AT YOU !"

"Why respond to ANY of these idiots ?"

"You are such a stupid ass !"

"You are a complete nutcase SOMEDUMBASSGUY"

"why is anyone arguing with people with crew service people with 12 years of high school education"


"EJA sucks..."
"EJM sucks MORE..."

"You are obviously one of the complete idiots running this clown show"

"silly, stupid, boneheaded..."

"LOSERS !!!"

"YOU ARE PATHETIC !!!!"

"What an idiot."

"NJA Owner. I don't care if you ARE or ARE NOT really an NJA owner. Either way, you are a complete geek and need to get off of these boards you pompous #$*"

Congratulations TurboJetCpt on your accomplishment; a skillful writer and might I say, "quite the looker".

Now, for the rest of us, it is safe to begin using your minds again and attempt to communicate without the words "moron, idiot, and loser". Good luck!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Originally Posted by steel

Just curious Family Guy?



Who said we wanted their pilots?





Diesel did just a couple days ago, when he posted this:



Originally Posted by Diesel

Sure i want the NJI guys under our umbrella. I want the planes and the pilots. I want to ensure my future by making sure the company can only use NJA pilots to fly any trip. It's called scope. I want to make sure we have a lock tight one.







Cost of Internet Subscribtion: $30/mo.

Cost of Flightinfo.com: Free

Cost of seeing the IBT double talk: Priceless





If these guys were President, they would be saying:



"Now hear me straight, I didn't have sexual relations with that woman".



Classic!

 

[SeaSpray]

All in good time for NJI. They WILL get what they deserve.

Spoken like a true union thug. You don't want to get anything by merit of skill and ability - only through threats and intimidation. God forbid that you pay your dues and earn your way into NJI - you just want to steal it through union shenanigans. Pathetic.

NJI already got what they deserved, they negotiated for better compensation, work rules and home basing than you could get, got it because they are better qualified than you are, and have been enjoying it since 1995.

 

[av8orboy]

Thanks for not clearing it up for me.

 

[Ultra Grump]

If these guys were President, they would be saying:
"Now hear me straight, I didn't have sexual relations with that woman".
Classic!

Better that than "Iraq is a clear and present danger. They have and continue to develop weapons of mass destruction."

 

[Hogprint]

SeaSpray posted:

NJI already got what they deserved, they negotiated for better compensation, work rules and home basing than you could get, got it because they are better qualified than you are, and have been enjoying it since 1995.

This begs a question.

Did NJI really NEGOTIATE for all they have or was that GIVEN to them?

Tribal knowledge says they were GIVEN most of that to spite a Union house from a union hating CEO.

If anyone can clear this up, I'm all ears.

 

[GVFlyer]

SeaSpray posted:



This begs a question.

Did NJI really NEGOTIATE for all they have or was that GIVEN to them?

Tribal knowledge says they were GIVEN most of that to spite a Union house from a union hating CEO.

If anyone can clear this up, I'm all ears.

I know the answer to this one.

The time is January 1995. NJA (EJA at that time) at the time was known for it's low pay and history of hiring turbo-prop regional pilots into jets (at least that was our conception at Gulfstream). These pilots were willing to accept the work rules, duty periods, gateways and poor compensation their union had negotiated for them in return for jet time. They were flying mostly Citation IIs.

Richard Santulli approached Teddy Forstman, the then current owner of Gulfstream saying he would like to start an international operations company using Gulfstreams. Forstman handed the deal to Bill Boisture, then President of Gulfstream, to make happen.

Subsequently, the initial contract between Gulfstream and NetJets was a Bill Boisture - Richard Santulli deal. Forstman and Santulli are too much alike to work together easily. Gulfstream provided the first three "core" aircraft because Santulli and Executive Jet were unable to capitalize them at that time. Because protecting their brand was paramount, Gulfstream made some conditions. For them to provide these aircraft and be part of the deal, it was agreed that only well experienced Gulfstream pilots would be hired for the new venture as safety was to be a key marketing point and EJI buyers would be guaranteed highly qualified, internationally experienced Gulfstream pilots.

It was originally determined that only captains with a minimum of 2,500 hours in Gulfstreams would be hired. To draw the kind of pilots desired, starting and subsequent salaries were set to be industry standard (and still are). Over time as the company matured the hiring practices allowed for the hiring of first officers.

The first EJI office was in the Gulfstream Customer lounge. Rick Schwartz, Ray Roberts and Peter Hanchak interviewed pilots while Joe Murphy, the present NJI President, shuttled between Savannah and Montvale hammering out compensation, homebasing, organization, workrules and duty periods.

NJI continues to be an autonomous company with their own President, executive staff, maintenance and dispatch/scheduling operations.

At the Big G, we had a couple of 1/8th shares and under NJI's rules the owning companies' pilots can fly in command on NJI aircraft as long as they meet NJI qualification and experience requirements as well as passing written, oral and flight checks. As such, I flew as an NJI Captain on our share aircraft for over a year and got to know many of the line pilots very well. Some of them I had known previously from the Gulfstream Community at Andrews AFB. All were professionals. I also know the Okatie leadership group from Gulfstream's efforts in initially establishing the EJI program as well as from working special joint projects with them. At one time, we worked together to develop the Flight Operations Manual still in use at Gulfstream. Other projects included Special Terrain Critical Procedures such as the Cottonwood Two at Vail. I think I have a pretty balanced view of NJI and it is my observation that NJI pilots are a very happy group with the company that they built - just as it is.


GV








~

 

[gutshotdraw]

Well done GV. I have attempted to post similar explanations on other threads pointing out why NJI is a SEPARATE company but those arguments usually fall on deaf ears. I always find it interesting when factual, reasoned discourse is met with insults, threats, and innaccuracies.


Something is brewing in South Carolina and it isn't fresh coffee.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Here Here. It's about time this board had some reasoned discourse to balance the never ending carping of the few obsessed ITB 1108 members who seem to think they have a monopoly on opinion at NetJets Inc. The truth is many of the folks out there simply want to fly the airplanes, get paid and enjoy the time off with their family's. I do not claim to have inside knowlege, as some do, however I feel secure enough that the professionals in the negotiating room will reach a compromise agreement that may not make everyone happy but will satisfy the majority. Anyone who tries to paint the picture of complete victory by labor and total capitulation by management will be rudely awakened by the cold splash of reality in their face. IMHP

 

[Hogprint]

GV thanks for the great gouge.

Can you elaborate on this statement more?

Richard Santulli approached Teddy Forstman, the then current owner of Gulfstream saying he would like to start an international operations company using Gulfstreams. Forstman handed the deal to Bill Boisture, then President of Gulfstream, to make happen

Why did he want a seperate company? Just for the international market or to start a non-union company?

Was it a shot across the unions bow? We know he did promise the NJA folks then that they would eventually fly the G's.

Why did he retract?

 

[Starman]

Why did he retract?

White man speak with forked tongue.

 

[GVFlyer]

GV thanks for the great gouge.

Can you elaborate on this statement more?




Why did he want a seperate company? Just for the international market or to start a non-union company?

Was it a shot across the unions bow? We know he did promise the NJA folks then that they would eventually fly the G's.

Why did he retract?

EJI was chartered in South Carolina because of favorable tax rates on aircraft deliveries. Other locations that would have worked include Nashua, New Hampshire and Wilmington, DE. South Carolina was chosen because of it's proximity to Gulfstream and the joint nature of the original EJI/Gulfstream relationship.

Gulfstream was the driver in EJI being a separate company. For brand management they did not want a large group of marginally qualified Citation II pilots flying their jets. Gulfstream insisted on internationally qualified Gulfstream pilots. The only way to achieve this was for the then Executive Jet to write an exception to scope, get the Teamsters to ratify it and form a separate company.

It is to be noted as well that Gulfstream is profoundly anti-union. In the 70's the company moved from Bethpage, NJ to Savannah, GA primarily because of the lack of quality in the northern union workforce and the perceived quality of the non-union good-ole-boy workers in the South.

I can't speak to Richard's thoughts or motivations in all of this. It is my observation, however, that he runs the company in a very Northeastern fashion, that is to say that his management style is based on personal loyalty. He rewards those that are loyal to him, punishes those who are not. For instance, I've known the present President of NJI since he worked for Digital Equipment. He is ideally suited to his present job and has done a superb job of collegially leading the company. However, at the time Joe was selected to lead EJI, there were others in the company that, to some, appeared to be better qualified for the position. Santulli chose him to lead EJI/NJI because Joe had been with him from the start and had been steadfast in his support of Richard and the company.

As far as Richard saying that NJA pilots would eventually fly Gulfstreams, I'm not disputing that he said it, I simply don't know anyone who heard him say that - not in NJI nor in Columbus. I do know that he advised the union at the time they ratifed the exception to scope for the Gulfstreams that there would be no further exceptions for large aircraft and there weren't. When the BBJ was brought on board, he hired contract training captains for what was at first to be three years, then eventually became four years, to bring the NJA pilots up to speed.



GV