So what is the netjets story?

[Hogprint]

Thanks again GV for the candid comments:

As far as Richard saying that NJA pilots would eventually fly Gulfstreams, I'm not disputing that he said it, I simply don't know anyone who heard him say that - not in NJI nor in Columbus.

I don't know if he said it either, but have always heard that since I've been here. There has been a lot of water over the dam and it's hard to pin down what is fact or tribal knowledge.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

As far as Richard saying that NJA pilots would eventually fly Gulfstreams, I'm not disputing that he said it, I simply don't know anyone who heard him say that - not in NJI nor in Columbus.

GV

I don't know any one who heard it from him either. He only showed up in CMH a few more times than he does now. But, he wrote it in a letter mailed to all of us. Now, if I can only figures out how to link the pdf here.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

...they did not want a large group of marginally qualified Citation II pilots flying their jets. ...GV

He, he, he...

Ace

 

[BBJPILOT]

Dont hold your breath for a new contract any time soon. The Teamsters want scope to include NJI regardless of the pay package, schedule etc.

Wrong, as usual, but try again. It will however cost Santulli a lot of money to keep his ego in full flower! Not sure if Buffett will agree, after all, he, not Santulli "owns" the Company(s), Santulli is just an employee!

 

[BBJPILOT]

EJI was chartered in South Carolina because of favorable tax rates on aircraft deliveries. Other locations that would have worked include Nashua, New Hampshire and Wilmington, DE. South Carolina was chosen because of it's proximity to Gulfstream and the joint nature of the original EJI/Gulfstream relationship.

Gulfstream was the driver in EJI being a separate company. For brand management they did not want a large group of marginally qualified Citation II pilots flying their jets. Gulfstream insisted on internationally qualified Gulfstream pilots. The only way to achieve this was for the then Executive Jet to write an exception to scope, get the Teamsters to ratify it and form a separate company.

It is to be noted as well that Gulfstream is profoundly anti-union. In the 70's the company moved from Bethpage, NJ to Savannah, GA primarily because of the lack of quality in the northern union workforce and the perceived quality of the non-union good-ole-boy workers in the South.

I can't speak to Richard's thoughts or motivations in all of this. It is my observation, however, that he runs the company in a very Northeastern fashion, that is to say that his management style is based on personal loyalty. He rewards those that are loyal to him, punishes those who are not. For instance, I've known the present President of NJI since he worked for Digital Equipment. He is ideally suited to his present job and has done a superb job of collegially leading the company. However, at the time Joe was selected to lead EJI, there were others in the company that, to some, appeared to be better qualified for the position. Santulli chose him to lead EJI/NJI because Joe had been with him from the start and had been steadfast in his support of Richard and the company.

As far as Richard saying that NJA pilots would eventually fly Gulfstreams, I'm not disputing that he said it, I simply don't know anyone who heard him say that - not in NJI nor in Columbus. I do know that he advised the union at the time they ratifed the exception to scope for the Gulfstreams that there would be no further exceptions for large aircraft and there weren't. When the BBJ was brought on board, he hired contract training captains for what was at first to be three years, then eventually became four years, to bring the NJA pilots up to speed.



GV

Wrong again, I love it when "experts" talk about what they know nothing of!

All BBJ LOTs were gone at 36 months or EARLIER! Most were relegated to SIC duties after the first year. Many were fired because they "ain't that good". Within the first year, NJA pilots were flying with each other and no LOTs. They were simply there to get all the extended days they could before leaving the Company.

There is so much else wrong with so many of the NJI posts it just isn't worth the time. Loyalty, yea that is sure something Santulli can never be claimed to have. Loyalty would be something shown to the pilots who really built this Company, who worked for crap for years when he was going under, who were promised by the "the Great One" that the reward was just around the corner. Pilots that worked here long before EJI was a wet dream, who flew 707s, KC135s, and yes, even the big bad G-Whiz. Falcons, lears, you name it, pilots at EJA flew them and were here in 1995. It was a sad tired story of how "Teddy won't do the deal with us if Union Pilots have to fly them". Or "Come on guys, let me get this thing going, once the Joint Marketing Agreement ends then I can bring them back to EJA where I really want them." Yep, good ole Loyal Santulli! Remember where the money came from for so many of EJIs formative years of loss, that is where the loyalty should reside. It is gonna be fun, I will personally gaurantee that!

 

[CRAWDADDY]

The stupidity of the BBJ LOT program was only matched when they tried to put street captains in the itty bitty Ultra.

The problem with the BBJ is that RTS has shown loyalty. But, it's been towards his buddy Gillette who ran a couple planes out of Hartford and was always bad mouthing the union(not exactly a great resume). Could he be one of the pro-mgt posters on this board? His grammar is definately better than the Hi-flight crew team member pages we used to get every day. Other than that, he has the Midas Touch in reverse. To wit, everything he touches turns to $hit.

 

[GVFlyer]

Wrong again, I love it when "experts" talk about what they know nothing of!

All BBJ LOTs were gone at 36 months or EARLIER! Most were relegated to SIC duties after the first year. Many were fired because they "ain't that good". Within the first year, NJA pilots were flying with each other and no LOTs. They were simply there to get all the extended days they could before leaving the Company.

There is so much else wrong with so many of the NJI posts it just isn't worth the time. Loyalty, yea that is sure something Santulli can never be claimed to have. Loyalty would be something shown to the pilots who really built this Company, who worked for crap for years when he was going under, who were promised by the "the Great One" that the reward was just around the corner. Pilots that worked here long before EJI was a wet dream, who flew 707s, KC135s, and yes, even the big bad G-Whiz. Falcons, lears, you name it, pilots at EJA flew them and were here in 1995. It was a sad tired story of how "Teddy won't do the deal with us if Union Pilots have to fly them". Or "Come on guys, let me get this thing going, once the Joint Marketing Agreement ends then I can bring them back to EJA where I really want them." Yep, good ole Loyal Santulli! Remember where the money came from for so many of EJIs formative years of loss, that is where the loyalty should reside. It is gonna be fun, I will personally gaurantee that!

I stand by my post. If you have been at NetJets long enough to be flying the BBJ, you probably have access to Woodbridge (where corporate headquarters moved from Montvale). In addition to Richard Santulli, Jim Jacobs and David Orlinsky were signatories of the original Gulfstream- Executive Jet contract. Bill Boisture, Reanor Reavis, and Don Mayer (of the Mayer family in Oscar-Mayer) represented Gulfstream. I suggest you contact one of the NetJets representatives to confirm the facts of my posting. Now that David has retired he probably has time to take your call.

Another interesting element of the contract was an agreement that NetJets would not buy competing large cabin jets such as the Global Express and the BBJ. After NetJets returned the original three core Gulfstreams (that Gulfstream had provided them) and purchased three new core aircraft (EJI was profitable much more quickly than anyone thought they could be), they no longer felt that they needed to honor that part of the contract. A part of the reason you terminated your relationship with Boeing just over three years ago was continuing pressure from Gulfstream.

I'm obviously not a NetJets employee, but I do have specific knowledge about your company as far as it's relationship to Gulfstream. I was a peripheral participant in the initial contract, participated in the joint marketing effort until Kevin Russell decided that Gulfstream was too expensive a partner in 1999 and flew an NJI Gulfstream as an owner's captain for over a year.

You didn't point out that the LOT captains at BDL had the option at the end of their contract to go fly the line in any NetJets aircraft that their seniority number would hold, that is to say the C-560. I assume that's what you guys have in mind for the Gulfstream pilots at NJI.

Additionally, I have known your chief pilot, Steve G., for over 20 years and his 860-292-XXXX phone number is in my speed dial. There are two groups of pilots at Bradley and I'm betting you're in the group that doesn't support their boss.


GV

 

[GVFlyer]

The stupidity of the BBJ LOT program was only matched when they tried to put street captains in the itty bitty Ultra.

The problem with the BBJ is that RTS has shown loyalty. But, it's been towards his buddy Gillette who ran a couple planes out of Hartford and was always bad mouthing the union(not exactly a great resume). Could he be one of the pro-mgt posters on this board? His grammar is definately better than the Hi-flight crew team member pages we used to get every day. Other than that, he has the Midas Touch in reverse. To wit, everything he touches turns to $hit.

I will agree with your post in so far as Richard showing loyalty to Steve, that's not his last name by the way. However, Steve has accomplished much in Connecticut. He got the FAR Part 135 certificate for the Gulfstreams and Boeings and the FAR Part 121 ticket for the BBJs. He aided in identifying a BBJ program that was not working and provided leadership in creating a formula that is working.


GV







~

 

[Muddauber]

All BBJ LOTs were gone at 36 months or EARLIER! Most were relegated to SIC duties after the first year. Many were fired because they "ain't that good". Within the first year, NJA pilots were flying with each other and no LOTs.

Lessee, considering the ulitization you guys were getting the first year, that means you were flying Boeings around the world with 400 maybe 500 hours of heavy jet time total up front.

Sounds down right dangerous to me.

Muddy

 

[transpac]

Lessee, considering the ulitization you guys were getting the first year, that means you were flying Boeings around the world with 400 maybe 500 hours of heavy jet time total up front.

Sounds down right dangerous to me.

Muddy

Are you saying a 737 is a heavy jet? Maybe to you, but the folks who actually fly heavies think it's a light twin. There are Ultra pilots at NJA with more heavy time than you have total.