So what is going on over at FLOPS

[dime line]

Got a contract yet? What do you guys think 3 more years?
Are you gonna have to tell DA19 that the union isn't getting the job done, and the pilots need his help?

 

[learflyer]

Where in the hell are you at? I thought they recalled you?

 

[skyismyoffice]

I think he's just trying to stir things up.

 

[Frac Cap]

We are quiet as church mice, and that is the way it needs to stay, for now.

 

[dime line]

never was laid off, in may

 

[johnsonrod]

Question about Legacies

Slightly off topic. Do your Legacies fly over to Europe and Hawaii much (a relative term in this economy) or do they mainly fly just within North America/Caribbean? Can an Options owner with a Legacy share book it to Maui or would they need to rent something else from Sentient, etc. to get there?

 

[993_Pilot]

Slightly off topic. Do your Legacies fly over to Europe and Hawaii much (a relative term in this economy) or do they mainly fly just within North America/Caribbean? Can an Options owner with a Legacy share book it to Maui or would they need to rent something else from Sentient, etc. to get there?

They could , and do go in a legacy or a C-X.

 

[ProFracPilot]

For all who have not listened to Silvestro's Weekly Message, I suggest you do so.

FUD or progress?

 

[jetwash]

FUD until I see a contract with industry standard pay.

 

[TurboHonda]

For all who have not listened to Silvestro's Weekly Message, I suggest you do so.

FUD or progress?

I listened to it, and here’s what I heard when I called 1 888 291 3828 #3:

Negotiations for the final issues will take a long time. We are not going to use Ford and Harrison anymore. They are bad guys. We’ll continue stalling, but we just won’t use them.

We don’t foresee anyone being hired back anytime soon, but we don’t foresee any more layoffs. So, here’s everyone’s chance to forget the guys that are gone and think about how lucky you are to have a job.

We’re giving back some of the stuff we stole from you, to further cloud your memory about why you are still trying to get a contract.

We’re going to give you new uniforms for the umpteenth time. This time we’re including shoes and belts. How many times do we have to give you clothes and food to make you give up on the idea that you should have a voice in what we have planned?

Jeesh! Have a nice day.

 

[993_Pilot]

I listened to it, and here’s what I heard ...

Sounds about right !

 

[CE-560 DRVR]

TurboHonda nailed it.

FLOPS Management is patting themselves on the back for returning benefits they stole from us years ago. All in an effort to give the mere appearance of a "spirit of cooperation" with the union.

Give me a break.

The pilots at Netjets received their large pay increase in late fall of 2005.....the rest of the industry followed suit. We are still waiting for a raise!

 

[shanes123]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news..But Flops isnt getting anywhere near industry standard..In fact they probably wont even get the lousy raise Sh*tfinger offered you guys 2 years ago..

 

[dime line]

I just want an 18 month contract. No pay raise, I better be staying in the waldorf astoria (sp) and get some kind of huge 401k matching

 

[jetwash]

I have no problem voting NO if I don't like it and lots of guys are feeing the same way now.

 

[CE-560 DRVR]

To Jetwash,
I agree. The pay needs to be close to industry standard or my vote will be no.

Its almost 4 yrs now with no pay increase.

In fact, we all took a 6% pay cut in February with the loss of the company 401K match. That cut will continue to have an impact down the road, assuming the stock market recovers.

They needed to come up with the funds to pay for all those expensed crew meals!! We'll just take from the employees and give it back to them (expensed meals) and congratulate ourselves, AGAIN, for being such generous managers!


FLOPS 10YR PIC $77,000

Industry Average $120,000

 

[ProFracPilot]

After the President's Weekly Message and the warning shot it contained, I can't imagine anyone voting "yes" first time around.

 

[William Holiday]

What about all the laid-off guy's.....This thing had better have some provisions to bring back some of them!!!!!

 

[Fedmagnet]

Slow to get a contract

Yet, busted Flops planes still fly the wealthy around the country daily.
Why should Flops settle a contract?

 

[jetwash]

There is a large block of pilots who are planning on sending a message to the union leadership and the company that they will not accept a sub standard pay in the contract. It is well organized and getting bigger every day.

Many of the furloughed guys who are able to vote will be adding their NO votes to the contract since they have nothing to lose at this point only the chance of an industry standard pay package when they return to their jobs.

I just hope our Union leadership gets the message and informs the company how pissed off the pilots are and will probably vote NO if they don't come up with a competitive pay package.

 

[Fedmagnet]

I do believe that there are a large group of pilots that are prepaired to vote on a contract but if a contract is never presented, it is a moot point.

Another day flying broke aircraft and another day with no contract presented to the pilots. Even if they do present a lame watered down contract and the pilots vote it down, what was acomplished but more wasted time. Then the company will say that the pilots are not being fair and on and on.

The contract is not being settled because the company is not motivated to do so. Think about it. Why should they, they have you doing the work now for peanuts. The company has been bought and sold a few times even with the labor dispute because the company has full control of the Union and the pilots.

The movement had a good start but suddenly went limp.

 

[William Holiday]

Many of the furloughed guy's want their jobs back, and are equally pissed at all the dudes that got us here in the first place. It will be interesting to watch the tables turn. BTW most of those pilots(laid-off) were some of the first on board, and some of the strongest members. To leave these people in the weeds with a "Industry Standard Contract" when and if you return. Such a giant load of crap....These guy's have plans also.....With a couple hundred votes, this group can throw it either way. Should be a fair fight and alot of fun to watch.

 

[Frac Cap]

My group of MIGS (members in good standing), are raising their expectations, and will be voting no to a substandard contract.

 

[CE-560 DRVR]

Mr Holiday,

Its obvious that you're upset at being furloughed, I would be too.

Blaming the pilots that are still employed is a stretch though friend.
The previous management team did a suberb job of running off customers and demoralizing the work force. For years, the sales force and ad campaigns were laughable. Recall the annoucement that they hired an aluminum garage door rep as the VP of Sales? Classic.

The management and sales team currently inplace are a vast improvement over what we had previously. They know the clientele and how to sell but they have their work cut out. There are very few buyers in the current economic climate and a savvy potential customer will be reluctant to purchase a share with a provider in the midst of contract negotiations. We've lost out on several lucrative opportunities because the union and management haven't yet reached an agreement.

The truth is we are still slow. No one is being asked to do ot, even those that routinely volunteer for and are granted ot have been unsuccessful in their attempts to obtain it. I don't see that recalling pilots will even be considered as a bargaining chip. In my opinion, we simply don't have the demand to justify employing more pilots at this time.

My advice: Don't waste time waiting for a recall. Take advantage of the federal funds available for retraining. I believe it will be awhile, maybe a long while, before recalls take place. Have you considered flying elsewhere in the world? Middle East?

I feel for you and wish you the best. The flying business is a lousy one to be in.

 

[netjetwife]

...Recall the annoucement that they hired an aluminum garage door rep as the VP of Sales? Classic. Oh yeah...the FLOP's at their finest...

.... We've lost out on several lucrative opportunities because the union and management haven't yet reached an agreement.
This could be the motivation Fedmagnet is looking for from management.


I feel for you and wish you the best. ....

My sentiments exactly! Good Luck 1108! I hope you exercise your option of rejecting a sub-par contract when/if that is what they offer. Frac pilots perform a similar task, using many of the same skills so it is WRONG to have such huge disparities in your pay. Hang in there, guys! You're doing the right thing for yourselves, your families, and the industry. Respectfully, NJW