So was B19 right or wrong?

[wacoflyr]

Wow, I've had my post taken out of context by TWO non-fractional types! I feel privileged, somehow..... Maybe I just feel misquoted. Okay, I'm just misunderstood. Hey what the hell, can't you two read!?!?!

 

[fischman]

Wow, I've had my post taken out of context by TWO non-fractional types! I feel privileged, somehow..... Maybe I just feel misquoted. Okay, I'm just misunderstood. Hey what the hell, can't you two read!?!?!

Sorry, I didn't read your post.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Do YOU work without a contract?:erm:

I do not have a contract. How many times are you going to ask me that question?

 

[B19 Flyer]

That is not what I said. This is aviation, and the only absolute is uncertainty. What I did say was that NetJets would not furlough in '09, which they didn't and I proved you WRONG.

I also proved you wrong over and over again when you stated that this "turmoil" to use your word, was created by NJASAP when in fact it was the company under out prior leadership which created this situation. NJASAP PROACTIVELY worked with the company to minimize the negative effects on NetJets families (at which time we as a Union again proved you WRONG as you ALWAYS cry about how reactionary unions are) which led to voluntary measures.

I also proved you wrong in that the company has not 1) come asking for concessions, 2) benefits being reduced, 3) CBA concessions being approved by the Union. Hasn't happened.

You see, this is how to PROVE someone wrong. I'd like to see you PROVE ANYTHING I have typed wrong. Hard, quantifiable, facts please. You CAN'T do it. Why? NJASAP does not match the mold. We are not the UAW, ALPA, or the Teamsters. I'd LOVE to see you try to PROVE ME WRONG.

"Stooge"? Name calling is the last resort of a weak mind. IS that why you can't prove anything?

fischman,

Every union pilot on this board has stated for YEARS that NJ would never furlough. That happened didn't it? You are one of those pilots. The semantics of the exact date is not relevent. The contract did not protect their jobs, and it never will yet there is an implied protection that a union contract brings.

As far as I'm concerned, the voluntary reductions were akin to a furlough. That is turmoil within the family unit. Just because you escaped it doesn't mean those families didn't go through hell. They did. I've been there, and making those decisions is actually harder that a clean layoff where the decision is made for you.

The top pilots were protected, the bottom were cut loose. You don't care about the bottom third of the seniorty list. It's the union way.

There are generally two furloughs before the contract gets backed into a corner and gets opened up. In effect, that's already happened, one voluntary, one not.

Say what you want, your union claimed "PROACTIVE" but instead really used smoke and mirrors to hide the inevitable and give the appearance they were doing the best they could. You believed it so in essence you got suckered by it.

Opening the contract would have done the same thing and shown best efforts and good faith the pilots the company and the owners.. didn't happen.

As far as my humor about you being a stooge? It was a play of your avatar which I personally thought was funny and clever. You on the other hand didn't. Sorry you didn't catch the humor.

That contract has caused great harm at NJ. Had it not been so radical and been more middle of the road many jobs would have been saved. There would not have been as many pilots hired to adjust to the work rules and the high pilot to plane ratio. Those pilots would have never been forced to make career decisions.

Split your hairs if you want... union fracs are still laying off and non union are hiring.... put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The mold? Exactly as history states. And when that contract gets opened, just like the furloughs that never were supposed to happen, I'll accept your humble apology.


And with that.. I just handed your butt to you.

 

[brokeflyer]

I think avantair needs a union. They need to spread that wealth over to the pilots who carry that company.

 

[7777]

The two furloughed NetJet pilots I mentioned that I met recently, said the next round of furloughs and downgrades will be announced next week.

Best wishes and sincere condolances to those that it affects.

 

[brokeflyer]

The two furloughed NetJet pilots I mentioned that I met recently, said the next round of furloughs and downgrades will be announced next week.

Best wishes and sincere condolances to those that it affects.

they may call more furloughs but not downgrades.....The contract is rather tight on downgrades.

Now you have been properly educated.

 

[Pervis]

The two furloughed NetJet pilots I mentioned that I met recently, said the next round of furloughs and downgrades will be announced next week.

Best wishes and sincere condolances to those that it affects.

Can't say whether or not there will be another round, but I'm curious how furloughed folks know more than those still employed. None of us know what will be announced, if anything. All I know is demand is up, sales are improving, and most are working shifts like days of old. We'll see.

 

[7777]

Next time I see them I will ask. It was something they brought up in conversation and I really didn't seek any other information. I was just listening.

I believe one of them mentioned they still had a good friend in management at NetJets that is passing this on to them. Both of these guys now work at the same company.

 

[fischman]

Next time I see them I will ask. It was something they brought up in conversation and I really didn't seek any other information. I was just listening.

I believe one of them mentioned they still had a good friend in management at NetJets that is passing this on to them. Both of these guys now work at the same company.

Unless your friend's friend is DS, I wouldn't put much faith in it.