So Now What For Mesaba?

[Peanut Chaser]

What does the NWA Chapter 11 filing Now mean for Mesaba? What are the "GOOD" and the "BADS" for XJ?

 

[TinGoose1]

Good news: 70 seat scope probably will be removed and Mesaba pilots will start flying 70 seaters.

Bad news: 70 seat scope probably will be removed and Mesaba pilots will be stuck in the commuters flying 70 seaters.

Short term: Good - Mesaba will probably expand quite a bit.
Long term: Bad - Mesaba will have fewer jobs at Northwest to get hired into.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

Mesaba will get nothing from this

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Hey Detroit pilot, who peed in your Wheaties?

MM

 

[labbats]

I thought Northwest didn't hire many from Mesaba anyway.

 

[xjavro85]

I thought Northwest didn't hire many from Mesaba anyway.

Where did they come from? Certainly not from pinnacle, most of those guys were not even born yet the last time NWA hired pilots.

 

[787]

Wish you well XJ'ers. Former NWA'er here. Even though some NWA guys don't like the notion of the ARJ...we all know who's behind the quality flying on the link end of the business. Really hoping 9E loses big in this courtroom dance. I just hope some pension is left intact.

 

[RampTower]

It's all speculation. That's what. Business as usual until the judge in New York begins to slaughter the NWA pensions, scope and payrates.

XJ is getting 15 CRJs (I believe 2 are already on property), 10 of those are paid for. 20 CRJs on option which by a probable no brainer will be excercised. As along as we continue to get the 15 CRJs there will be hiring and growth for that matter.

The future of the Avro is once again brought up. No surprise though. If the judge dumps the scope, it opens up a whole new door for 70+ seat aircraft. But it doesn't guarantee Mesaba or even pinnacle are the top two picks to fly em. Think cheaper costs.... like Mesa, CHQ, etc.

I see xj mgt going to Wychor and asking for some type of concessions for growth. LOA 15 all over again.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Hey Detroit pilot, who peed in your Wheaties?

MM

I would assume with the mighty CRJ experience and Detriot Pilot title he's a PCL guy......but I'm sure he'll tell me I'm wrong.

They have all this wrapped up remember....they have another certificate on the way!! Ha! study your history books boys.

Piker

 

[FlyinPiker]

It's all speculation. That's what. Business as usual until the judge in New York begins to slaughter the NWA pensions, scope and payrates.

XJ is getting 15 CRJs (I believe 2 are already on property), 10 of those are paid for. 20 CRJs on option which by a probable no brainer will be excercised. As along as we continue to get the 15 CRJs there will be hiring and growth for that matter.

The future of the Avro is once again brought up. No surprise though. If the judge dumps the scope, it opens up a whole new door for 70+ seat aircraft. But it doesn't guarantee Mesaba or even pinnacle are the top two picks to fly em. Think cheaper costs.... like Mesa, CHQ, etc.

I see xj mgt going to Wychor and asking for some type of concessions for growth. LOA 15 all over again.

Who's paying for these things anyway?? NW as usual?? If that's the case will you see more than 10 while they are in bankruptcy?

Piker

 

[dondk]

Scope is the big thing... eliminate scope and 9E and XJ may benefit in flying, but we all better live in domicile as the jumpseat will be off limits to us.

Personally I don't care who and how much growth either gets, as long as it "stays in the family". Bring in a 3rd party and we might as well bend over and provide our own sandpaper.

 

[Towelie]

Scope is the big thing... eliminate scope and 9E and XJ may benefit in flying, but we all better live in domicile as the jumpseat will be off limits to us.

I think most NWA guys are smarter than that. They know the difference between true scabs and changing times. They will be mad but starting a jumpseat war affects them too. How many NWA pilots commute on XJ or 9E?

Just a thought.

 

[Terry Hunter]

I think most NWA guys are smarter than that. They know the difference between true scabs and changing times. They will be mad but starting a jumpseat war affects them too. How many NWA pilots commute on XJ or 9E?

A few jumpseat problems occured when the Avro's came on property years back - mostly on the NWA end I believe ("No way - RJ" for those who remember!). It was curbed immediately within the circle.

 

[nwaredtail]

Don't get too excited about expansion folks, 31 Avros were on the list of 102 potential planes to be parked.

 

[T-handle]

Here comes the first wave.... NWA furloughs

Straight from NWA Alpa website: http://www.nwaalpa.org/

REDUCED FLYING LEVELS / ADDITIONAL FURLOUGHS (9/15/05)

The NWA MEC officers and Negotiating Committee met with NWA management today to review the initial steps management plans to take in the near future as part of its reorganization plan. During the meeting, management informed ALPA that it will reduce mainline block hours by 13 percent. Management said the reduced flying levels will result in 400 pilot furloughs over the next eight months in addition to the approximately 500 Northwest pilots currently on furlough. The first 70 pilots will soon receive notice for layoff which will be effective Nov. 1, then 150 pilots are expected to be furloughed Jan. 1, and the rest (180 pilots) in early second quarter 2006.

These additional furloughs are driven by reduced flying levels and are not the result of any changes to our contract. The NWA pilot contract remains in full force and effect as it was prior to yesterday’s filing. NWA pilots have aggressively fought over the past few years to help NWA avoid Chapter 11 because of its impact on pilot jobs. Today's news is very painful for our membership, especially our junior pilots and their families. Throughout this reorganization, ALPA will continue its efforts to mitigate the loss of pilot jobs.




On a side note, a Bombardier demo CRJ-700 was in MSP today. For what? anyone's guess. Support aircraft dropping off/picking up people/parts/etc?

 

[Detroitpilot22]

I would assume with the mighty CRJ experience and Detriot Pilot title he's a PCL guy......but I'm sure he'll tell me I'm wrong.

They have all this wrapped up remember....they have another certificate on the way!! Ha! study your history books boys.

Piker

You know what, I am a Pinnacle Guy, and I like my job. I hope neither xj or 9e get 70 seaters and that Northwest can pull out of this and keep their pilots.

By the way, I was hired with the published minimums and I am not a pay for training dude. Im sure your times which you chose not to even post are far more better than anyone else.

 

[dondk]

I think most NWA guys are smarter than that. They know the difference between true scabs and changing times. They will be mad but starting a jumpseat war affects them too. How many NWA pilots commute on XJ or 9E?

Just a thought.

Very true... but I also remember getting the "runaround" (being very PC here) when NWA was furloughing and 9E was growing. I remember many of the comments of us "taking thier flying". If perhaps either 9E OR XJ should find some bigger aircraft on the property... does anyone think NWA pilots will be jumping for joy? I'd still bet on cold jumpseats and more runarounds. Regardless if they use our jumpseats or not.

Let's be real here.. if regional X came in and took any of XJ's or 9E's flying, you would let the "regional X" guy know your pissed one way or the other if they wanted a jumseat.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Management said the reduced flying levels will result in 400 pilot furloughs over the next eight months in addition to the approximately 500 Northwest pilots currently on furlough. The first 70 pilots will soon receive notice for layoff which will be effective Nov. 1, then 150 pilots are expected to be furloughed Jan. 1, and the rest (180 pilots) in early second quarter 2006.

Best wishes to these guys. You guys worrying about whether XJ or 9E is going to get more 70-seat flying out of the deal need to gain some perspective.

 

[smokey999]

I agree. Best of luck to you redtailers. I do have to say a look into the history books does not fair well far anyone flying a red or silver jet.

Look at what happened at United and US when BK hit. More furloughs, and contract carriers coming in to drive down costs. When it all shakes down and you have to choose who to be upset with, please don't take it out on any of your fellow colleagues. Remember, this is all evil management.

 

[Peanut Chaser]

You know what gets me?....We commuters are just trying to get to work, to put food in the mouths of our families. This nonsense of "shutting down" a jumpseat due to "Managements Actions" is senseless. You make it sound like we as pilots have a voting right into what goes on in the boardrooms.

Should we quit and start over with a new airline because we are getting new planes? I think Colgan is hiring.

 

[Monster Buck]

Best wishes to these guys. You guys worrying about whether XJ or 9E is going to get more 70-seat flying out of the deal need to gain some perspective.

I hate pc people. Quess what the post was originally about? Exactly what these guys are commenting on. The original post wasn't about the bs happening at NWA. If you want to talk about that, you can start your own post. Don't jump on the pc band wagon just like all the other liberals out there. These guys are talking about what they want to talk about. Just because it is about y doesn't mean they forgot about x.

 

[fly4ever]

nwaredtail,

Do you have the list of aircraft? I know about the 757-200s and some DC9-30s they want to unload now because they aren't even in service. What are the specific airframes that make up the rest of the 102 aircraft?

 

[Butters]

Don't get too excited about expansion folks, 31 Avros were on the list of 102 potential planes to be parked.

Everyone knew that was coming. As our new VP said, "Hard to keep a plane with four engines that burn that much gas and gets passed on the road by cars."

But NWA needs that size plane to be competitive so if they go, they will be replaced by something.

I do feel bad for the guys at NWA, don't get me wrong. I know many of them personally. However, I also have my own future to worry about. I don't want to lose flying or potential flying to another entity. Flying that is leaving NWA regardless of what we do.

No one wants to expand and the cost of someone else.

 

[Towelie]

Don't get too excited about expansion folks, 31 Avros were on the list of 102 potential planes to be parked.

Not entirely true. From the Minneapolis StarTribune:

The Eagan-based carrier, which operates one of the oldest fleets in the industry, filed a motion to reject or abandon 13 airplanes that have been parked for an extended period or which it can no longer operate economically, including six Boeing 757-200s and four DC-9-30s.

Also, Northwest reported that over a 45-day period it wants to renegotiate terms on leases and debt financing for 102 airplanes.

Doesn't exactly mean they are going to "park" another 102 planes. If they do, it won't be right away.

One thing we all need to do is mellow out until all the facts come out.

 

[Lucky Strike]

nwaredtail,

Do you have the list of aircraft? I know about the 757-200s and some DC9-30s they want to unload now because they aren't even in service. What are the specific airframes that make up the rest of the 102 aircraft?

Here's the list I saw...not all of these aircraft are going to be parked...the company wants to refinance the lease agreements on them. The leasers wouldn't do it outside of BK...now they will.


11.....747-200
7.......DC-10
22.....757-200
20.....A320
6.......A319
31.....Bae-146

 

[fly4ever]

Thanks for the info Lucky.

I hope for the best for all of the redtail employees.

 

[xcr600]

Easy detroit..........

 

[Detroitpilot22]

how is montreal xcr600?

 

[FlyingFisherman]

You know what, I am a Pinnacle Guy, and I like my job. I hope neither xj or 9e get 70 seaters and that Northwest can pull out of this and keep their pilots.

By the way, I was hired with the published minimums and I am not a pay for training dude. Im sure your times which you chose not to even post are far more better than anyone else.

Times don't matter, bud. It's all about experience and from that statement you don't have a lick. Happy Pinnacle-ing and see ya a 410, dude.

 

[FlyinPiker]

You know what, I am a Pinnacle Guy, and I like my job. I hope neither xj or 9e get 70 seaters and that Northwest can pull out of this and keep their pilots.

By the way, I was hired with the published minimums and I am not a pay for training dude. Im sure your times which you chose not to even post are far more better than anyone else.

Easy son....I was just pointing out that one plus one equals two. I don't work for 9E or XJ, so don't think this is some XJ guy jumpin all over your case.

Congrads getting hired with the published mins and not paying for training.

If you truely give a rats a$$ how much time I or any other guy on this board has, or how many type ratings I have, or whether I was military or civilian. You are going to have a very long career. I fly for an airline where my F/O's are starting to show up with shiny new commercial CRJ type ratings ( and believe it or not I'm not even at Mesa) .....I guess now I know what they are useful for....impressing the mighty board.

Piker