So ASA's PBS Couldn't Build Me A Schedule...It Dumps Me On Reserve...WTF

[centralpilot]

It's too complicated.

It takes me 30 minutes to bid now vs 3+ hours with line bidding. Sorting the pairings is much faster for me than having to make compromises with the company-built lines. The advanced editor is your friend.

 

[Fishpaw]

Of the 100 pilots at ExpressJet, I'm willing to bet none of them know the difference between what ASA has and what Continental has. PBS is entirely tailored to each company. You might as well as if you like line bidding at one company or another.

That may be the case for some XJT pilots. However, with the amount of resources ALPA is using and information being put out about ASA's pbs to XJT pilots I would say most are somewhat educated if not very well educated. Are ASA pilots as aware of our bidding/trading/scheduling rules as we are of yours? I doubt it...

 

[dojetdriver]

Of the 100 pilots at ExpressJet, I'm willing to bet none of them know the difference between what ASA has and what Continental has. PBS is entirely tailored to each company. You might as well as if you like line bidding at one company or another.

And you were to take (insert number here of) ASA pilots, I'm willing bet that none of them know the difference between what ASA had and what XJT has.

 

[Flyguy1226]

PBS has worked for me. Some of the flaws/loopholes need to be fixed and mgmt. needs to have less control over the Admin. panel, other than that, I think it would be a great system. I'm pretty much at the bottom of the barrel, but 90% of the time I get what I want, and that is commutable 4 day trips with decent credit (20+ hrs at least). I've had consistently between 14-17 days off/month and have always been able to swap or drop something in open time if needed.

I think if you learn the system and take your time and figure out you bid, I does work. The reason I might have bee successful too is because guys senior to me are not bidding correctly.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

And you were to take (insert number here of) ASA pilots, I'm willing bet that none of them know the difference between what ASA had and what XJT has.

Sounds like neither side has enough information to make an informed decision, doesn't it. SO instead of bad mouthing what you've heard or what you think of the other side, why not ask questions. Not on this place, but to the elected union representation. If you would like the contact info of our association's leadership, I will gladly PM it to you.

In the mean time, quit complaining about what you don't know.

 

[JoeMerchant]

And you were to take (insert number here of) ASA pilots, I'm willing bet that none of them know the difference between what ASA had and what XJT has.

The current XJT system is better than the ASA line bidding system we had. The current XJT system is better for some than the current ASA PBS system....The current XJT system isn't cost effective in this competitive environment...Many of us understand the difference and many of us also have a much better understanding of reality...

 

[dojetdriver]

Sounds like neither side has enough information to make an informed decision, doesn't it. SO instead of bad mouthing what you've heard or what you think of the other side, why not ask questions. Not on this place, but to the elected union representation. If you would like the contact info of our association's leadership, I will gladly PM it to you.

In the mean time, quit complaining about what you don't know.

WHOA WHOA WHOA, gear down there big shifter. What was so hard for you to understand that just like XJT people have a complete lack of knowledge of the ASA PBS, there's easily an equal amount of ASA people that ZERO knowledge of the XJT line bid system?

So instead of bad mouthing, and getting your colon in a twist, why don't you try reading what I wrote instead of making assumptions?

And thanks for the offer on rep contact information, don't need it. Would you like me give you the contact info for the XJT PBS committee reps? They've done a pretty good job communicating the good and the bad and know the flexibility and limitations of BOTH systems. Seems as if some of you guys may need it. Not just for understanding the XJT system, but you own PBS system as well. As evidenced by this thread, and others.

The current XJT system is better than the ASA line bidding system we had. The current XJT system is better for some than the current ASA PBS system....The current XJT system isn't cost effective in this competitive environment...Many of us understand the difference and many of us also have a much better understanding of reality...

Those of you think you have a grasp on reality should remember the "80 million dollars saved in synergies from the combined companies" that was touted and stop falling on the fear grenade that management keeps tossing at you.

 

[CaribPilot]

If PBS can be fixed and or optimized with better pairings...it would be great.

I'm not for abolishing the thing...but it DEFINITELY needs fixing.

 

[Mike man]

pbs blows...and that's all I've got to say about that.

 

[cybourg10]

The current XJT system is better than the ASA line bidding system we had. The current XJT system is better for some than the current ASA PBS system....The current XJT system isn't cost effective in this competitive environment...Many of us understand the difference and many of us also have a much better understanding of reality...

Joe, The XJT pilots are cheaper per block hour than ASA because we are more efficient over here. It is not necessarily just because of our bidding system but our pairing building as well. You have restrictive contract language (ex: minimum amount of 3 day trips) that help restrict your productivity. Even with higher average W2s over at XJT, we cost the company less per flight than the pilots over at ASA. Perhaps ASA pilots need to become more productive to help the company get back to in the black? Depending on the language, PBS might actually increase our costs at XJT. I am not a huge fan of line bidding, so I am willing to vote for the right PBS system but lets not throw out BS about how XJT pilots are too expensive.

The number I heard was $45 an hour cheaper fyi and it did not come from anyone in ALPA.

 

[Nevets]

It's too complicated. It's not a matter of dumb or smart. Why does the bidding process have to be so frustrating. It's ridiculous. We should have a much more fail proof system that doesn't take numerous tedious tutorials to learn how to use it. We work so much for this poorly managed company, why can't something that decides our quality of life be simple and less time consuming. As it is, this company denies every swap, works us until we are so tired that the few days off we have, we are resting up just to go back to the cluster f. This PBS system is a mess. Of course some some of you are getting what you want. You have to look across the board and see that many pilots are simply getting screwed. Waiting until the end of the month to know your schedule is unacceptable. Most of the people I work with have lives outside of this despicable place. Most people want to be treated like a professional. Expressjet pilots seem to have some sensibilities we are lacking at ASA. I hope the Expressjet pilots vote down this PBS system. Senior pilots that have worked very hard for the right to have a decent schedule should not be put on reserve and very junior pilots especially those at the bottom of the list should not be holding lines. Wtf! We all pay or dues. Vacations are just a small part of the whole picture. So you might get more, you might not. It's the daily grind that needs to be addressed. PBS is a failure.

At XJT, no one that is senior enough for a line ever ends up on reserve regardless of vacation, training, etc. Unless you want to of course.

Of the 100 pilots at ExpressJet, I'm willing to bet none of them know the difference between what ASA has and what Continental has. PBS is entirely tailored to each company. You might as well as if you like line bidding at one company or another.

We have a scheduling committee that has actually taken the time to learn about your PBS. There is even a PBS subcommittee that has researched your PBS and others, actually loaded our schedules into your PBS and others, played with it, manipulate it. I understand that the scheduling committee has even taken your pairings and built lines that are much better than your pairing solutions. They have also shown how your PBS with our work rules leaves way too much open time (in management's point of view), etc. And they have made multiple presentations to the MECs including a power point presentation for the entire pilot group.

Has your MEC educated themselves and your pilot group on our line bidding system? Has your MEC done ANY of that? I've been told they don't even want to hear about our line bidding system because they just want their current PBS.

It takes me 30 minutes to bid now vs 3+ hours with line bidding. Sorting the pairings is much faster for me than having to make compromises with the company-built lines. The advanced editor is your friend.

Takes me less than 30 minutes for me using our AdOpt line sorter.

The current XJT system is better than the ASA line bidding system we had. The current XJT system is better for some than the current ASA PBS system....The current XJT system isn't cost effective in this competitive environment...Many of us understand the difference and many of us also have a much better understanding of reality...

The current XJT system is no less cost effective than ASA's PBS. If they want to become more cost competitive, they can one list all of us. Until then, I'm not for subsidizing their continued wipsaw of us and Skywest.

 

[centralpilot]

At XJT, no one that is senior enough for a line ever ends up on reserve regardless of vacation, training, etc. Unless you want to of course.

That was true under ASA line bidding as well, but PBS resulted in less total pilots on reserve. Which is better? I'll grant that it is frustrating for someone to be on reserve while a junior pilot is holding a line. However, if there weren't sufficient pairings to build the more senior pilot a line what is the alternative? Should the junior pilot who can finish a schedule with just a few of the remaining pairings be forced into reserve just to make the senior pilot feel better? That just results in more open-time for all reserves to cover.

I'll grant that there have been some extreme examples of this caused by excessively high credit windows. That definitely needs to be addressed, but that alone isn't enough to jettison the entire system.

Takes me less than 30 minutes for me using our AdOpt line sorter.

FLiCA has pretty good sorting filters for line bidding as well. The problem I had was making decisions about which full month's schedule was better than another one. These decisions were necessitated by conflicting bidding objectives that couldn't be quantified by any sorting filter. Bidding on pairings individually has solved those problems, for my purposes anyway. It has also solved the problem of having to defensively bid around integration days.

If they want to become more cost competitive, they can one list all of us. Until then, I'm not for subsidizing their continued wipsaw of us and Skywest.

I share these sentiments. I'm interested in obtaining the best scheduling system and work rules that we can. My QOL has improved with PBS, so I naturally have a preference for building off of that system. I enjoy constructing my schedule the way I want by bidding on pairings instead of pre-built lines. At the same time I like a lot of the work rules attached to the ExpressJet line bidding system. If I see a TA based on that system that I think will further improve my QOL I'm sure I'll vote yes. At the end of the day I want whichever system will allow the greatest work rules & schedule control. On the other hand it seems many ExpressJet pilots would knee-jerk vote down any TA with PBS included, even if it came with the best work rules imaginable. That is unfortunate.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The current XJT system is no less cost effective than ASA's PBS. If they want to become more cost competitive, they can one list all of us. Until then, I'm not for subsidizing their continued wipsaw of us and Skywest.

One list and the inability to whipsaw does not make the company more cost effective....Competition lowers costs plain and simple. The reason you want to combine is so that you can gain more leverage and extract more money and better work rules from management. Multiply that by all the other unions, and that will cost the company more.

 

[CaribPilot]

So how the hell am i supposed to have a life if my schedule is COMPLETELY unpredictable?

Guys junior to me continue to get lines while i get dumped on reserve...and i am 2 years senior to them in some cases. O Joy!

Seniority anybody? I guess it means NOTHING in this case. All you butt-tards with the "Maybe you didnt do something right" talk....GTFOH. Serious flaw in the system here.

You best believe...the first oppurtunity i get to go somewhere else that is desirable...I'm gone.

 

[WWEfan]

So how the hell am i supposed to have a life if my schedule is COMPLETELY unpredictable?

Guys junior to me continue to get lines while i get dumped on reserve...and i am 2 years senior to them in some cases. O Joy!

Seniority anybody? I guess it means NOTHING in this case. All you butt-tards with the "Maybe you didnt do something right" talk....GTFOH. Serious flaw in the system here.

You best believe...the first oppurtunity i get to go somewhere else that is desirable...I'm gone.

Don't let the doorknob hit ya in the ass on the way out. Deuces!

 

[Freebrd]

...the first oppurtunity i get to go somewhere else that is desirable...I'm gone.

what's your number, do I get to move up one?

 

[CaribPilot]

Gooooooo Surejet!

 

[CaribPilot]

You guys sit back and watch the mass exodus that is gonna happen. Joke all want...but the day is coming for hundreds of pilots that are gonna leave without giving one fart of consideration for this company.

Management is scared...check the agreements they are beginning to sign with flight schools. Karma is a beech...watch and see. They are not going to be able to fill new hire classes.

 

[Freebrd]

when did you say you're leaving, wanna know where I stand for bidding ya know

 

[ohplease!]

So how the hell am i supposed to have a life if my schedule is COMPLETELY unpredictable?

Guys junior to me continue to get lines while i get dumped on reserve...and i am 2 years senior to them in some cases. O Joy!

Seniority anybody? I guess it means NOTHING in this case. All you butt-tards with the "Maybe you didnt do something right" talk....GTFOH. Serious flaw in the system here.

You best believe...the first oppurtunity i get to go somewhere else that is desirable...I'm gone.

you are obviously doing something wrong....but you are apparently from the "me" generation that consistently blames everyone else for their lack of ability.....so, I hate PBS too! there! does that help?...lololol