Sleepy NWA pilots?

[lowtimedriver]

Here is the revocation letter:

http://stmedia.startribune.com/docu...ised.pdf?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiacyKUUr

 

[ultrarunner]

The CVR is there to assist in accident investigations - period.

That was part of the statute that got them put in airplanes in the first place....

Maybe as far as the FAA and NTSB is concerned. But I'm thinking if the CVR contains evidence that the pilot's initial statements to the FBI were false, it's their to hang them.....

 

[bizjet800]

I thought they couldn't use any of the CVR data for enforcement purposes?

 

[bizjet800]

wouldn't the company have tried to selcal them or something?

SelCal only works if you're tuned to the correct HF frequency. Not sure whey the HF would even be on for that flight.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

It's good to see that the FAA (the ones who leaked this letter) did such a great job protecting his cert. number in the emergency revocation paragraph which allows the media to find him via the airman database.

Jerks!

 

[satpak77]

Deleted - reposted accidently below and couldnt fix it

 

[ultrarunner]

I thought they couldn't use any of the CVR data for enforcement purposes?

FAA enforcement.

Nothing so far indicates that any CVR data was used in order to determine the emergency revocation. Only that the "investigation" indicated it was in order.

Lying to an FBI agent is a federal offense. And IMHO if the CVR data supports that, I fully expect that data to be used to prosecute the pilots.

And the end of the day it's all academic. The only question now is weather or not the pilots will face charges of obstruction of justice and potential jail-time.

They'll never set foot on property again, anyone's property, and I don't think that is in dispute.

 

[satpak77]

The CVR is there to assist in accident investigations - period.

That was part of the statute that got them put in airplanes in the first place.

The airplane will fly just fine with those breakers open.

I agree, however one element is missing - There is no accident and no accident investigation per se.

http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/report.htm

Federal regulations require operators to notify the NTSB immediately of aviation accidents and certain incidents. An accident is defined as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft that takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.

If a criminal investigation is opened, those tapes are open territory, if they contain evidence of crime (or evidence to exculpate the pilots). If the pilots get indicted, and their attorney says, look, the CVR clearly indicates this or that, and due to some civil admin reg, they can't use it? Come on. "No, sorry, ICAO convention blah blah, the CVR contains material proving your client is innocent. However, nope, it can't be introduced at trial (just as allegedly CVR tape containing evidence of guilt purportedly could not be used). Sorry, so sad."

I don't think so.

Criminal law goes both ways.

 

[Caveman]

I gotta say I have a problem with this whole mess. Whatever happened that night it's clear they screwed up big time. Nobody is disputing that. What bugs me is the witch hunt atmosphere surrounding all of this. Did these guys screw up so bad they deserve to lose their jobs, career and certificates? I mean seriously, does one albeit large mistake negate everything they've done right for the last thirty years?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences. Time off? You bet. Fired? If they lied, yes. Lose their certificates and the ability to ever work again? I don't think so. Under the circumstances it's unlikely they'll ever work 121 again. However, if some charter op, on demand freight company or corporate department wants to give them a second chance I say let them. I think the media and uneducated public opinion is driving this more than the reality. They screwed up bad. I get it. I don't think they screwed up bad enough to lose their livelihoods.

Put aside your holier than thou attitudes for a moment. How many of us have screwed up but didn't get caught? I know I have. Fortunately no one got hurt and no metal got bent. I think these two are being made scapegoats for other recent incidents. The feds and NWA can punish them without destroying them.

 

[sat74]

The new American way - destroy your life! Whether its the IRS fining you into oblivion or taking the property you believe you own, to banks destorying your life and taking your home, we now have the no due process thanks to being tried by the media and ignorant public while the FAA destroys the livelihood of pilots by making sure they never earn a dime flying again. Great place we have here!

 

[satpak77]

The new American way - destroy your life! Whether its the IRS fining you into oblivion or taking the property you believe you own, to banks destorying your life and taking your home, we now have the no due process thanks to being tried by the media and ignorant public while the FAA destroys the livelihood of pilots by making sure they never earn a dime flying again. Great place we have here!

American Way? Maybe Babbitt's way. Former ALPA head is now FAA Administrator. This required his sign-off.