Sleepy NWA pilots?

[flylike44]

this will happen more and more as all the geezers inch inexorably towards age 65...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here is a quote from General Lee:

It sure doesn't seem like those 1500 hours they each had (more for the Capt) were quality hours. They lacked basic airmanship skills. You don't pull back on the yoke during a stall. You don't put the flaps up during one either. That plane pancaked straight down on ONE house. You have to set a new standard (a higher standard) and go from there. To the pilots, I say RIP. But, something has to be done here.


Bye Bye---General Lee

There were many more quotes like this....You get the point...Now that Delta pilots are the one with the black eye, they've gone from offense to defense...The double standard continues with each post they make....

 

[Poahi]

The amount of ignorance on this forum is INCREDIBLE.

That's one thing, but the 'ignorance' is confined to these forums. What about the soapbox that Sully has been blithering from? He bashes the regional pilots as the bottom of the barrel and that's why they aren't professional and fall asleep while flying. This week he was proven irrelevant.

At least the regional pilots were honest about their mistakes. Debating policy? Save it for flightinfo. The profession was set back this week.

 

[Networ-King]

Looks like the lying has already started....not looking good for these guys if in fact this is their story.....


Net


Joe Merchant,


You lost all credibility when you grouped all Delta pilots in with Genital Warts and used his quote to defend your position. You should know better than that...

US Airliner Loses Contact, Overflies Destination

October 23, 2009
A Northwest Airlines flight carrying 144 passengers from San Diego to Minneapolis lost contact with air controllers for more than an hour and overflew its destination by 150 miles (241 km), officials said Thursday.
The National Transportation Safety Board said the two pilots of Flight 188, an Airbus A320, told authorities after landing safely Wednesday night that they had become distracted during a "heated discussion about airline policy."
The NTSB said Thursday it would review the plane's flight data and voice recorders and interview the pilots. Among other issues, investigators will explore crew fatigue to see if the pilots were tired, the NTSB said.
Northwest is owned by Delta Air Lines, which said the pilots had been relieved from active flying pending completion of the NTSB investigation and an internal probe by Delta.
Safety board investigations can take several months to complete.
The plane was flying at 37,000 feet when it lost radio contact between 8 pm and 9:15 pm EDT.
Flight 188 was 150 miles off course by the time the crew re-established communications and requested permission to turn around, officials said.
Airport police boarded the plane in Minneapolis to ensure there had not been a hijacking or other criminal activity, a spokesman for Minneapolis-St Paul Airport said.
Military authorities were alerted during the incident and put fighter jets on stand-by status temporarily, the North American Aerospace Defense Command said.
It was the second unusual incident involving a US airliner this week.
On Monday, a Delta Boeing 767 with 182 passengers landed on a taxiway instead of its assigned runway at Atlanta's Hartsfield airport. The taxiway, which was parallel to the runway, was active but cleared of ground traffic.

(Reuters)

 

[dondk]

not that flightaware is a science. Look at the route for the 21st and compare with routes from previous days. The 21st is clearly flight plan route, no short cuts. Most of not all of the previous days, had shortcuts (direct) or some variation thereof.

either, they are ticked off enough to keep flight plan route or they declined a short cut and relaxed a bit too much.

Just odd, that's all.

 

[NEDude]

This is a nightmare scenario. I can see how this happened, especially in the A320. The nice seats, reclined, using the footrests. Nice quiet humm of the engines and wind. Really easy to nod off, even for a younger guy. I feel for these guys.

Perhaps this will put even more pressure on the fatigue issue.

 

[Jabwmu]

Incidentally, I don't recall an incorrect runway being used in SDF any time recently... Refresh my memory?

I think he's referring to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_191 out of Lexington.

 

[waveflyer]

Come on guys- either of these could have led to loss of life. Easily. And it was Lexington, not SDF- I hope it was fatigue related- but I fear that this heated debate may be true- which helps none of us.

Actually.... I hope they had two of the last remaining hot FA's bent over their tray tables.

 

[701EV]

Fox news is reporting that the NTSB only has the last 30 minutes of the CVR. Not the two hour like they thought they had.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Come on guys- either of these could have led to loss of life. Easily. And it was Lexington, not SDF- I hope it was fatigue related- but I fear that this heated debate may be true- which helps none of us.

Actually.... I hope they had two of the last remaining hot FA's bent over their tray tables.

Now wouldn't that be a story.

 

[veneratio]

Fox news is reporting that the NTSB only has the last 30 minutes of the CVR. Not the two hour like they thought they had.

So normally the CVR records the past 2 hours? You think the crew manipulated the CVR recording time (if it's even possible).?

 

[aussieflyboy]

So normally the CVR records the past 2 hours? You think the crew manipulated the CVR recording time (if it's even possible).?

I sure hope not, if that happened the two guys would be looking at criminal prosecution instead of just being fired.

Of course, if there's not more than 30 minutes of recording then they'll probably get away with it. That being said, I'd really like to hear their explanation of how they could still be at FL370 250 miles or so after their expected descent point... On a three hour flight? Please, we're all clock watching toward the end... we all know exactly how long there is to go.

 

[FlyAuburn]

Simple. Every time I have a CA ask me to ask for one, it is to determine the "factor" we add to Ref speed. Once the Auto-Throttles are off we are required by Boeing to have it.

The "How Long is Final?" question is generally asked by guys in jets that have a hard time getting down. Also 210 KIAS is right above the speed at which we need to dirty up. Ergo, if it is going to be a 20 mile final there is no need to get dirty. We will keep it clean and come down slowly. Anything under seven or eight miles requires most of our jets to dirty up to make the base turn at seven or eight miles and below 4500 feet which is the altitude required by ATL Tracon.

So why not add the factor when you get the ATIS?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Suppose the issue was that they de-selected the com1 on both the audio panels and never heard ATC calling and really were in a "heated discussion" (aka not minding the store) and simply weren't paying attention to where they were. Maybe dispatch was trying to reach them through ACARS, maybe not.

While they were certainly negligent, it might be a more benign story that folks imagine.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I've lost track of time with my pants down. It happens.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

So why not add the factor when you get the ATIS?

Do you really have to ask that? Is ATIS the latest wind?

I typically have it in my mind what it is and listen to tower giving out winds as they clear people to land... its pretty rare for me to actually get a "wind check" unless the winds on the FMC are looking a lot different.

 

[Wankel7]

Was listening to npr and a passenger said they saw two officers leave the cockpit with a plastic case. Something you would store a drill in. I wonder what that was?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Here is a quote from General Lee:



There were many more quotes like this....You get the point...Now that Delta pilots are the one with the black eye, they've gone from offense to defense...The double standard continues with each post they make....

The anger runs so deep in you that even if someone gave you a complement on here you'd turn it around.

I don't see anyone defending these guys on here... There is always someone calling out to restrain yourselves and wait for the investigation in any thread, which is the appropriate thing.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Was listening to npr and a passenger said they saw two officers leave the cockpit with a plastic case. Something you would store a drill in. I wonder what that was?

Typically the data download devices look like that.

 

[Bluejob]

They might be alive today, but by luck or design??

Just because there HAPPENED to not be anyone taxiing on the taxiway in ATL, and just because the NWA guys HAPPENED to wake up 150 nm east of MSP and not during the spiralling death plunge of a fuel exhausted Airbus somewhere over central Ontario, do you think that excuses their actions? Maybe next time they wouldn't be so lucky, just like the Comair and Colgan crews weren't so lucky.

Incidentally, I don't recall an incorrect runway being used in SDF any time recently... Refresh my memory?

Sorry Aussie, I stand corrected. It was LEX. Not that I'm old, but maybe I'll take a nap now.

 

[relief tube]

Probably been asked (don't feel like looking through 109 posts), but how old are they? My 62 year old dad has been falling asleep on the couch at 1030pm every night after work for the last 10 years...so my mom says.

 

[airplane wizard]

How come no one is asking where they went to flight school? Are these guys PFTer's? Maybe this guys went through Gulfstream Academy? LOL
Where are all you that sh$t on low-time people. What's the excuse now? I bet the morons on the Airbus had like atleast 15,000 hours between the two of them. Come on guys if any regional crew would have done this or landed on a taxiway there would have been loooooooong thread about PFT and lowtime and blah blah blah. Some of you on this board are giving these guys a pass. Just think about that.

Right on, maybe this incident will shut these little cry babies up. The autopilots in these aircraft should be deactivated, and you guys should have to hand fly everything. Oh, and only VOR/DME too, no FMS/GPS/moving maps either. At least you guys will stay awake then.

 

[xray678]

Suppose the issue was that they de-selected the com1 on both the audio panels and never heard ATC calling and really were in a "heated discussion" (aka not minding the store) and simply weren't paying attention to where they were. Maybe dispatch was trying to reach them through ACARS, maybe not.

While they were certainly negligent, it might be a more benign story that folks imagine.

They were very negligent. Messing up the comm panel or having a discussion that caused you to miss some radio calls, I can understand. But how do you not notice the destination on the map display? I mean, past TOD, past the last point on the arrival, aircraft probably changing modes because it had no more route to follow? How does that happen to two professional pilots?

Even if their story is true, they should have lied and said they fell asleep. I think that is less negligent than what they are claiming happened.

 

[Flyingcat]

I would be very curious as to the situational awareness of everyone else such as the flight attendants. They were going to MSP so at least some of the passengers would have connections. We all know if there is a five minute delay they are already worried about those connections. I would think that even the most clueless of flight attendants would be wondering if they were holding because by now someone has complained they are not going to make that connection.

I will certainly not pass judgment since I was not on the flightdeck, but there are definitely a lot of things to make you go Hmm!

 

[densoo]

I would be very curious as to the situational awareness of everyone else such as the flight attendants.

Controllers on the ground, pilots of other planes, even a flight attendant back in the cabin tried to alert the crew as the U.S. passenger airliner overshot its destination of Minneapolis at 37,000 feet.

I've gone coast to coast with one call from the back.

 

[SLUF4]

There was a retired Delta pilot on WSB this morning saying that it was highly unlikely that they fell asleep since it's only a 3hour and 30 min flight and it was mostly during the day.

 

[JetSpeed219]

There was a retired Delta pilot on WSB this morning saying that it was highly unlikely that they fell asleep since it's only a 3hour and 30 min flight and it was mostly during the day.

I wonder what he has to say about the GO! pilots that fell asleep on a 30 minute flight...

 

[semperfido]

The solution: Put coach seats on the flight deck.

How bout cockpit tours at .25 per tour. .....that may be too much:smash:

 

[SLUF4]

wouldn't the company have tried to selcal them or something?

 

[Green Banana]

Take it for what it is, but here is an artical that names both pilots and states that the CVR only got the last 30 minutes.
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/...port_police_report_nwa_flight_188_oct_23_2009