SkyWest takes Delta for Everything It's Got

[wheelsup]

You guys are FEED. Sure, you are doing well, attached to two bankrupt carriers. As we both emerge eventually, we will regain our strength gradually, and you will still be feed. Get over your nasty selves...Get over yourself.

I'm glad you had the foresight to go to Delta back in the day. Congrats. Unfortunately, I graduated college 2 year after 9/11, and for the last 5 years or so the industry has been in the sh11ter and lowly "feeder" guys probably won't ever get a shot at mainline. I'm glad you are happy making more money than us, and I'm glad you feel the need to rub it in. That's awesome.

Nevermind the fact that skywest helped Delta raise the needed cash to continue (if the article is true) or that AWAC helped USAir out of BK by investing their $125 mil. Maybe one day you will be the "feed"?

~wheelsup

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Ok, I won't make 5 times as much, maybe two or three. And, I may not get 18 days off initially---probably 13-14. As far as getting the left seat, it is looking good right now thanks to great lease negotiations. Will I be a jerk Captain? No, I will buy everything third drink--as long as the FO buys the other two. And, everyone in this industry that flies will eventually get a pay cut. Look at the Expressjet guys with a great contract and a healthy feed partner--CAL---they still are getting the squeeze.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Uhhh General Loser,
You don't even make twice as much. SKYW and ASA RJ pay isn't that low compared to the mighty DAL narrowbody scale. Looking at that MD88 scale topping out at 139 an hour is kinda depressing when a 12 year CA at SKYW is making close to 80 per hour even when flying a 50 seater. About 86 for a 70 seater at ASA. If your work rules go the way of UAL's narrowbody work rules you'll be crying the blues.

You may not be a jerk captain but you'll always be a jerk on FlightInfo.

 

[PSPFAWILL]

Go Dave!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

You guys are FEED. Sure, you are doing well, attached to two bankrupt carriers.

FEED......Ooooohhhhh...what an insult. FEED.

Let's see now. SKYW has been profitable longer than some of their captains have been alive. Close to 30 years, isn't it? When was the last time DAL even turned a profit?

Funny when I talk to guys that have been furloughed for several years they regret ever leaving their job at a FEEDer. FEED may not be as glamorous as you make mainline out to be but let's face reality. It's a more stable job right now.

 

[General Lee]

Uhhh General Loser,
You don't even make twice as much. SKYW and ASA RJ pay isn't that low compared to the mighty DAL narrowbody scale. Looking at that MD88 scale topping out at 139 an hour is kinda depressing when a 12 year CA at SKYW is making close to 80 per hour even when flying a 50 seater. About 86 for a 70 seater at ASA. If your work rules go the way of UAL's narrowbody work rules you'll be crying the blues.

You may not be a jerk captain but you'll always be a jerk on FlightInfo.

Thanks Dave, for all of your support. The thing is, if Delta's pension does allow one more lump sum payout (they look at every quarter, and if the fund is funded up to 80%--they dole them out again) like people think may happen in March---1300 pilots are eligible. Will that many go? Probably not. But will the top 300? Probably. If they do, I will be a 738 Captain, and if more go, I will go higher. That is the key here Dave, we can go higher for bigger planes (unlike a certain Regional based in St. George). It is just a matter of time. And, I am 40, so I have time to eventually move up in future contracts. 787 here I come.

And Dave, come on now with the personal attacks. I would only expect that from CFIT.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

FEED......Ooooohhhhh...what an insult. FEED.

Let's see now. SKYW has been profitable longer than some of their captains have been alive. Close to 30 years, isn't it? When was the last time DAL even turned a profit?

Funny when I talk to guys that have been furloughed for several years they regret ever leaving their job at a FEEDer. FEED may not be as glamorous as you make mainline out to be but let's face reality. It's a more stable job right now.

Dave, easy now, you will blow a vein. When was the last profit at Delta? We were ALWAYS profitable (a lot more than SkyWest makes) until 9-11, and you can understand that when you have very few passengers on 400 mainline sized planes for a few months after 9-11, losses start.(except at regional feed with guaranteed contracts) You can understand that. Then the internet thing came around--to buy cheap tickets and cause larger losses. Then high gas killed us all---except SkyWest who had an "insulated" plan with Delta---which worked well for you but not for us. You know the history, but Delta has always had money, and we have been doing a great job losing it over the last 4 years. We are now trying to save $3 billion a year in cost savings, and we all will be squeesed somewhat to achieve that. Your pilots have come through for the company a few times----and made you look bad to the whole regional industry. You were the first to accept one rate for any plane up to 99 seats, and you have no power to change that. You could have had a 1.2% pay raise, but you turned that down---which is good I guess---and now you may never see that again. Who knows? Glass houses.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Will that many go? Probably not. But will the top 300? Probably. If they do, I will be a 738 Captain, and if more go, I will go higher. That is the key here Dave, we can go higher for bigger planes (unlike a certain Regional based in St. George). It is just a matter of time.

I'm not sure if I'd be rejoicing over moving up in seniority because thousands are leaving like rats abandoning a sinking ship. Maybe they just know some things you haven't figured out yet.

Don't think a certain regional won't get bigger planes? I wouldn't count on that. A certain bankruptcy case is a long ways from being over. And a certain MEC has a reputation for eating its young.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Then the internet thing came around--to buy cheap tickets and cause larger losses. Then high gas killed us all---except SkyWest who had an "insulated" plan with Delta---which worked well for you but not for us.

So what's your plan General? You gonna kill the internet? Make OPEC sell oil for for the amount of money your company's business plan was based on?
Those problems aren't going away anytime soon. Maybe flying E-190's at sub-JetBlu rates will insure your survival. Of course you'll be defending those crappy rates a lot longer than SKYW pilots will be worried about their combined rates.

 

[General Lee]

I'm not sure if I'd be rejoicing over moving up in seniority because thousands are leaving like rats abandoning a sinking ship. Maybe they just know some things you haven't figured out yet.

Don't think a certain regional won't get bigger planes? I wouldn't count on that. A certain bankruptcy case is a long ways from being over. And a certain MEC has a reputation for eating its young.

That MEC has now changed. The leader is a new 737-200 Captain. Same MEC? Not. Sinking ship? It is trying to float again, and with savings it will. If it sinks, you will sink too. Look at the exit financing for USAir with AWA's help. The financers got DOUBLE their money back. There will be financing companies lining up to get the same deal with Delta. USAir's stock is twice what is was when it came out---huge profits for those companies who got stock. This airline won't go away, unless a merger, and we would do ok since we just got rid of 2300 Captains, in 18 months!

Will you get some bigger planes? Maybe. Will ALPA cave on the 79 seater? I hope not. But, if they do--you will get the CRJ-705--a tad bit bigger than that CR7, and for the same pay. Ouch. We already have a pay rate proposal for the 100 seater---and any agreements would have scope added too. I think ALPA will stand strong for the 79 seaters and up, since 2300 super loyal captains just left the building. Even the 58% approval for the TA says something. It says a bit more and your Summer season may be a rough one.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So what's your plan General? You gonna kill the internet? Make OPEC sell oil for for the amount of money your company's business plan was based on?
Those problems aren't going away anytime soon. Maybe flying E-190's at sub-JetBlu rates will insure your survival. Of course you'll be defending those crappy rates a lot longer than SKYW pilots will be worried about their combined rates.

Their plan is to squeeze everyone. You included. My plan? Well, it is amazing that 2300 Captains left in 18 months. Look at NW, they didn't have the lump sum option, and none of their guys are leaving. We lost 2300. Amazing. I am moving up and trying to keep my same pay by moving up to Captain on the MD88 or maybe the 738 in NYC. As far as the E190s or other 100 seaters, if the pay rate is right--the company will go for it. The key is to get the aircraft first, and then wait for the next contract to raise the pay. We have learned from past mistakes (50 and 70 seat RJs). But think about it, those rates for 100 seaters (set by Jetblue management) will affect everyone---your management will bring those same rates up during your negotiations. (when are they again?) They would have to do that----how can a 70 seater pay more than a 100 seater? That would be their first question. How can you answer that?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The key is to get the aircraft first, and then wait for the next contract to raise the pay.

Exactly what SKYW pilots were told when they were voting on the 50-99 seat pay deal wasn't it? I think partial or total loss of UAX codeshare was also predicted. Kind of ironic that you'd use the same line of logic.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

But think about it, those rates for 100 seaters (set by Jetblue management) will affect everyone---your management will bring those same rates up during your negotiations. (when are they again?) They would have to do that----how can a 70 seater pay more than a 100 seater? That would be their first question. How can you answer that?

It would be a lot easier to deal with if it was just JetBlue with those rates. With JetBlue we can accurately describe them as a LCC upstart. None of their pilots have been there long enough to even come close to the top of the scale. DAL is a far different story as a mature legacy carrier with strong international network and dramatically lowered costs.

I agree with you General. You'll be helping to lower the bar for both the regionals and the majors. You gotta feel good about that, don't you?

 

[everyonedoa360]

Why is it I have never been to the "real airline" forums?, but Mr. Lee lives
on the "FEED" forums. Do you have nothing better to do, perhaps reading
sportys catalog on how to spend your 5X pay check ($400,000 a year) would be better for us all.

On the other hand, Mr. Lee is trying SOOOOOO VERYYYYYY HARDDDD to let us know that HIS life is sooooo much better then ours. All I can say is I guess WE (FEEDERS) are doing something right in order for Mr. Lee to tell himself (and all of us feeders) that he is still better.

 

[General Lee]

Exactly what SKYW pilots were told when they were voting on the 50-99 seat pay deal wasn't it? I think partial or total loss of UAX codeshare was also predicted. Kind of ironic that you'd use the same line of logic.

Yes, but the SkyWest lawyers had the paperwork done the next morning by 7am. Amazing work by those guys! Must have ordered a bunch of pizza. Then you will bring up that our 757s and 767s pay the same. Well, we brought our 757 wages UP TO the 767 wages. (C2K contract)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ohplease!]

Why is it I have never been to the "real airline" forums?, but Mr. Lee lives
on the "FEED" forums. Do you have nothing better to do, perhaps reading
sportys catalog on how to spend your 5X pay check ($400,000 a year) would be better for us all.

On the other hand, Mr. Lee is trying SOOOOOO VERYYYYYY HARDDDD to let us know that HIS life is sooooo much better then ours. .

6000 posts in 3 years? 'nough said. What a pitiful life. Poor guy. Nobody will come out and play with him so he sits with his computer and tells everyone how great he is.

 

[General Lee]

It would be a lot easier to deal with if it was just JetBlue with those rates. With JetBlue we can accurately describe them as a LCC upstart. None of their pilots have been there long enough to even come close to the top of the scale. DAL is a far different story as a mature legacy carrier with strong international network and dramatically lowered costs.

I agree with you General. You'll be helping to lower the bar for both the regionals and the majors. You gotta feel good about that, don't you?

Dave,

Since we are all doing poorly, we have to go for the wages at the benchmark, which was set by Jetblue management. The latest wage for the E190 was set by USAir/AWA--which was increased to $98 an hour from (jetblue's $87 an hour) for a 12 year Captain. It is going up, a bit. And, we raised pilot pay in general for everyone once. No one remebers that. That helped Fedex, Southwest, etc. We aim to go back there one day.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

6000 posts in 3 years? 'nough said. What a pitiful life. Poor guy. Nobody will come out and play with him so he sits with his computer and tells everyone how great he is.

You go after my post number because you can't debate me otherwise. Sad.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Yes, but the SkyWest lawyers had the paperwork done the next morning by 7am.

You have a clever way of avoiding the tough questions. True it was already a done deal but how was anyone to have known that? You've also dodged your hypocritical BS about "getting the planes on the property and trying for better rates on the next contract." That's pretty much what the SKYW pilots did. Even with the controversial rates in place the earnings of a SKYW pilot over the first 5-10 years are likely to be far more than most other regionals due to the growth and resultant quicker upgrades. I think the pilot group has learned from the previous mistakes as evidenced by the recent TA vote.

 

[commuterpuke]

Like all of us I wanted the uniform, to fly a cool jet as quick as possible, to feel equal to my friends, have hot chicks look at you during boarding while you flip switches and look cool, and all that other stuff

 

[General Lee]

You have a clever way of avoiding the tough questions. True it was already a done deal but how was anyone to have known that? You've also dodged your hypocritical BS about "getting the planes on the property and trying for better rates on the next contract." That's pretty much what the SKYW pilots did. Even with the controversial rates in place the earnings of a SKYW pilot over the first 5-10 years are likely to be far more than most other regionals due to the growth and resultant quicker upgrades. I think the pilot group has learned from the previous mistakes as evidenced by the recent TA vote.

Dave,

Ok, give me that "tough question" again. And, we are in bankruptcy and our chief competitor on the East Coast just bought new 100 seaters and set the pay rate. Do we really have any room, specifically in our situation, to ask for twice as much as our chief competitor? We don't. Now, on other planes that they do not have, we can ask for more---like 767s and 777s. But, when it comes to competing with the competition on the same types of planes, unless we are frothing over in profits, we cannot ask for $30 bucks more an hour. Our other pay was brought down to "industry standard" (767 Capt, 777 Capt etc at AA/CAL/ etc), and a future 100 seater rate would do the same. Make sense yet? You may have to do the same with your 50/70 seaters too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mookie]

"making 5 times what you guys are making."

Genral,

You make $400,000 a year as a 75 fo??? What will you make as a Md-88 captain???

HOw is the studdying going? YOu must be very excited...

Mookie

 

[General Lee]

"making 5 times what you guys are making."

Genral,

You make $400,000 a year as a 75 fo??? What will you make as a Md-88 captain???

HOw is the studdying going? YOu must be very excited...

Mookie

Alright, 5 times might be too much. Maybe two to three times. That sounds about right. And, again, since I haven't seen the latest bid, I don't know about the MD88. Also, it appears I MIGHT be able to hold the plug Captain spot on the 737-800 in NYC---if things work out. That would be better because I flew the 738 for a year in '97. Great HUD system for the Captain--allowing you to hand fly a CatIII. So, since I don't know which plane yet---no studying. And, I am excited. How about you? Flown that CR7 for CR2 pay yet? The 738 will pay a bit more than the MD88 too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CFIT]

Alright, 5 times might be too much. Maybe two to three times. That sounds about right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world of diminished reality. A ten year RJ captain can easily make 90 to 110k a year. So you are really looking at maybe 10 to 30% more at best.

For that extra 10 to 30% more you have to stress with your company in BK, walk thru the terminal looking like you just smelled a fart, act like a moron on the radio, and in your case try to tell all the other pilots what to do.

You look to be making too much, Prudy was right. generalcoinbag

 

[Mookie]

Genral,

I've flown the 70 about as much as you've flown the 75 for Southwest 73 pay...(Actually I take that back...they make more than you...I just looked it up, sorry.)

Good luck on the upgrade, we're ALL pulling for you.
Mookie

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

devil in the details

Alright, 5 times might be too much. Maybe two to three times. That sounds about right. And, again, since I haven't seen the latest bid, I don't know about the MD88. Also, it appears I MIGHT be able to hold the plug Captain spot on the 737-800 in NYC---if things work out. That would be better because I flew the 738 for a year in '97. Great HUD system for the Captain--allowing you to hand fly a CatIII. So, since I don't know which plane yet---no studying. And, I am excited. How about you? Flown that CR7 for CR2 pay yet? The 738 will pay a bit more than the MD88 too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General FLEA!!! I know several 10 year captains that make 120K a year and have 16-18 days off a month. They are insulated from you and your "wind check squad" You need to layoff the posting if you want to have any eyes left to use that HUD. I do need a ride to St. Thomas in the spring so get ready for some drinks.

 

[General Lee]

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world of diminished reality. A ten year RJ captain can easily make 90 to 110k a year. So you are really looking at maybe 10 to 30% more at best.

For that extra 10 to 30% more you have to stress with your company in BK, walk thru the terminal looking like you just smelled a fart, act like a moron on the radio, and in your case try to tell all the other pilots what to do.

You look to be making too much, Prudy was right. generalcoinbag

You will ALWAYS lose debating me. Let's say I stay at Delta the rest of my career, and you stay at SkyWest. How will we do then? I can move up to larger aircraft, and our current contract will be up in 5 years, and hoping that we do better financially---we can get a raise. I will probably get 15% matching for our new Defined Contribution program (that is what United has.....)---so I will probably get 15% of my monthly Captain salary matched in my new 401K etc. That is a lot. Even with a NW merge, I should still be a Captain due to a % merger. So, how will I do compared to you? 3 or 4 times more? How about when we both turn 60? You are very likely getting a pay freeze or pay cut soon, which is unfortunate---but the way the regionals are going too. We all are going to get a pay cut. And, you will be the one smelling my fart in the terminal. It was Wendy's.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General FLEA!!! I know several 10 year captains that make 120K a year and have 16-18 days off a month. They are insulated from you and your "wind check squad" You need to layoff the posting if you want to have any eyes left to use that HUD. I do need a ride to St. Thomas in the spring so get ready for some drinks.

I don't call for wind checks---only ex-Navy guys do. And, the HUD will allow me a better view so I don't have to squint----which will save my sight and allow me more time on this board. And, if you want to go to St. Thomas----you are always welcome. I will make sure you get as many Coke's as you want----no charge. I usually do St.Thomas and San Juan turns from ATL in the Winter, with an occasional SAN layover.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Genral,

I've flown the 70 about as much as you've flown the 75 for Southwest 73 pay...(Actually I take that back...they make more than you...I just looked it up, sorry.)

Good luck on the upgrade, we're ALL pulling for you.
Mookie

You're probably right, they do make more than I do, and they should--they are profitable. I have no problem with that, and hope they continue to so someday we can get back there. At least we have the ability to go for the big pay. Ron Reber and Brad Holt say you don't deserve it.

And, the upgrade will be there, and it will go well I am sure. I am hoping for the 738 because I have already done a full type oral on that aircraft, and I initially trained on it with another FO, so I got to use the HUD a lot. You would love it.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

General Tea Bag...

Okay, seriously, are you trying to sound like a tool? I mean, you are saying stuff that I make up when I tell my non-pilot friends how big of a dork most pilots are...

You have to be putting us on, you aren't that big of a pilot dork are you?

 

[General Lee]

General Tea Bag...

Okay, seriously, are you trying to sound like a tool? I mean, you are saying stuff that I make up when I tell my non-pilot friends how big of a dork most pilots are...

You have to be putting us on, you aren't that big of a pilot dork are you?

Nope, not a dork, just better informed than you. This hasn't been an easy job, and the last 4 years have been tough watching this thing fall down. But, 2300 captains leaving in 18 months has made it easier. And Gaylord Fokker, try to grow up a bit---you sound like a total douche. You have a friend? Where did you buy it?(a blow up doll?)

Bye Bye--General Lee