Skywest, Republic, and ALPA

[FightingIrish]

I am not talking about the UAL/UAX issue....

This is a new benefit for jumpseating.... Will Skywest pilots want the benefits? They do have a jumpseat committee and perhaps they were part of the process that brought this about.....

I work with the Skywest jumpseat committee and they are professionals despite your attacks on them. They understand the value and work very hard to protect it. Here at ASA, we do to. This has nothing to do with ALPA, so please keep your agenda out of it. ALPA is on thin ice here at ASA, and you aren't helping.

They want the same things that you and I want. They aren't the devil you make them out to be. The problem we are having at ASA and Skywest is the mainline partner. They are both ALPA.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I work with the Skywest jumpseat committee and they are professionals despite your attacks on them. They understand the value and work very hard to protect it. Here at ASA, we do to. This has nothing to do with ALPA, so please keep your agenda out of it. ALPA is on thin ice here at ASA, and you aren't helping.

They want the same things that you and I want. They aren't the devil you make them out to be. The problem we are having at ASA and Skywest is the mainline partner. They are both ALPA.

I don't doubt you.... but it is bigger than jumpseating issues..... How does it have nothing to do with ALPA? When you say ALPA is on this ice?




ALPA might be on thin ice at ASA.... and that is just the way Jerry and the RAA like it....

What does UALPA and DALPA have to do with the mainline corporation's relationship with ASA and OO pilots?

 

[FightingIrish]

I don't doubt you.... but it is bigger than jumpseating issues.....




ALPA might be on thin ice at ASA.... and that is just the way Jerry and the RAA like it....

What does UALPA and DALPA have to do with the mainline corporation?

I'm sorry Rez, but I don't understand your post. What do you want to see?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm sorry Rez, but I don't understand your post. What do you want to see?

The OO pilots pulling on the same rope as the rest of us.... instead of riding in the back, consuming resources and being disrespectful..... as I said this goes far beyond jumpseat privileges....

 

[FightingIrish]

The OO pilots pulling on the same rope as the rest of us.... instead of riding in the back, consuming resources and being disrespectful..... as I said this goes far beyond jumpseat privileges....

As an ASA ALPA volunteer, I can assure you that the Skywest pilots are pulling on the same rope. It is some ALPA carriers that are pulling against us at ASA. Mesa hurt us. Compass hurt us. The Skywest pilots are not "disrespectful" to me. How are they to you? Are the Mesa pilots "disrespectful" to you?

Our downward pressure isn't coming from our Skywest brothers. You are barking up the wrong tree and trying to pick a fight that isn't there. Do yourself and ALPA a failure. Please stop.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As an ASA ALPA volunteer, I can assure you that the Skywest pilots are pulling on the same rope. It is some ALPA carriers that are pulling against us at ASA. Mesa hurt us. Compass hurt us. The Skywest pilots are not "disrespectful" to me. How are they to you? Are the Mesa pilots "disrespectful" to you?

How are they pulling on the same rope?

Did ALPA create the company MESA? or Compass?

Why would the OO pilots disrespect you? There are good guys at OO. But the issue is national and global.... not exclusive to the jumpseat world...

Sooner or later OO cost will get high.. and management will have to out source OO pilots or OO pilots will have to take serious wage cuts... note Epress Jet and Colgan..

Our downward pressure isn't coming from our Skywest brothers. You are barking up the wrong tree and trying to pick a fight that isn't there. Do yourself and ALPA a failure. Please stop.

Of course it is... OO management knows a good deal when they see it... having the OO pilots non union is less resistence. They like it so much that they are working on getting the ASA pilots to reject ALPA.. either legally or "spiritually'. Union representation is about access to govt. As long managment has access to govt and OO pilots do not.. managment is happy...


Look at it this way... when the ALPA Pres, whoever s/he is, goes before Congress and says I represent 50,000 plus airline pilots.. it gets noticed. what he needs to be saying is.. I represent 100% of the Air Line Pilots in the US. Recall the APA pilots and the B scale... those senior clowns needed levegage and they sold out the next gen. Regardless of why the APA left ALPA, leaving ALPA was bad for all of us..


If the President of the USA went to the United Nations or G8 or another international representation event and said "I represent 42 of the 50 United States...." How would that sit with you? Consider a land locked state like Kansas or OK who removed it self from the federal level but stayed connected to the 50 states ecomonmically. They stopped paying into the federal budget, including the defense budget because they knew thier defense was most assured. As a tax payer would that concern you?

Don't worry... the JB pilots are just the same as the OO pilots.... so its not like the OO pilots are that special....

 

[FightingIrish]

How are they pulling on the same rope?

They value the jumpseat. They value safety. They want a strong Skywest Inc. They are fellow professionals who work for the same corporation as I do. Why do you think they aren't pulling on the same rope?

Did ALPA create the company MESA? or Compass?

Why would the OO pilots disrespect you? There are good guys at OO. But the issue is national and global.... not exclusive to the jumpseat world...

Rez, you answer too many questions with more questions. That doesn't work for most people.

ALPA represents Mesa, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. ALPA created Compass, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. The Skywest pilots don't disrespect me, and I respect them. You don't respect them, and you are spokesperson of ALPA. As an ALPA volunteer, you disrespect me everytime you speak bad about my fellow Skywest pilots. They have a bigger spine than you want to admit. It's some of my fellow ALPA pilots that I wonder about.

Of course it is... OO management knows a good deal when they see it... having the OO pilots non union is less resistence. They like it so much that they are working on getting the ASA pilots to reject ALPA.. either legally or "spiritually'. Union representation is about access to govt. As long managment has access to govt and OO pilots do not.. managment is happy...

The Skywest pilots aren't working on getting ASA pilots to reject ALPA. The movement is coming from ASA pilots who were ALPA reps. Former MEC members, and MEC officers are advocating dumping ALPA. Why is that? It isn't coming from Skywest pilots.

 

[joe_pilot]

...Look at it this way... when the ALPA Pres, whoever s/he is, goes before Congress and says I represent 50,000 plus airline pilots.. it gets noticed. what he needs to be saying is.. I represent 100% of the Air Line Pilots in the US. Recall the APA pilots and the B scale... those senior clowns needed levegage and they sold out the next gen. Regardless of why the APA left ALPA, leaving ALPA was bad for all of us..

If the President of the USA went to the United Nations or G8 or another international representation event and said "I represent 42 of the 50 United States...." How would that sit with you? Consider a land locked state like Kansas or OK who removed it self from the federal level but stayed connected to the 50 states economically. They stopped paying into the federal budget, including the defense budget because they knew their defense was most assured. As a tax payer would that concern you?
....

Rez,

Do you honestly think this is a valid comparison? Seriously now. Come on.

-JP

 

[Nevets]

2. My attitude is based on the fact that I am looking out for what is best for ASA....not what is best for you, mainline pilots, or the "profession". I think that any solution now will have "collatoral damage" including many regional pilots.

3. I'm not sure we are on the same side.




It's my job to do what is best for me...that's what most people are going to do...Any solution that doesn't keep that in mind is doomed to fail...As far as "blame" and getting over the past...you know the saying...Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....I don't think we have learned from history yet....




You shouldn't have to "sell" ALPA...it should sell itself. I will say, you do better than you cohorts (Rez, PCL128, and waveflyer)...There constant attacks on those who disagree, and especially the Skywest pilots, makes it harder to take ALPA seriously.




See, now you have lost any support from about 30-40% of regional pilots....Any deal that puts a single mainline pilot senior to a regional pilot on the aircraft we fly, is a deal breaker. You may not agree with that, but that is simply a fact.

I feel that we are on the same side on this issue. And I also feel that doing what is best for you is not necessarily not the same thing as doing whats best for the profession. I just think we disagree on how to do what is best for the profession and hence, for you.

I also feel that we should learn from our mistakes as you said. But blaming people in of itself will not help. And as humans, we will always make mistakes, so I agree that we havent learned from history yet because history and mistakes are continuously being made.

You are also right in that I shouldnt have to sell ALPA insofar as that no one should have to sell voting in presidential elections. The fact is that there is some apathy among pilots. Im only trying to give facts and my opinions.

Also, any deal would probably include fences. Of course there will be drawbacks on both sides. But the regioanl pilot gains more qol in the end because there will no longer be the threat of your flying going to the lowest bidder.

Regionals are told what to do by ALPA national....I know because I have seen it first hand. Some tell ALPA national to pound sand....and some fold a cheap lawn chair.

Why should I support mainline in taking the flying back as a regional "lifer"? Keep in mind that depending on the regional, 35-40% plan on staying....What's in it for them?

Regianl MECs are NOT told what to do by ALPA other than whats in the administrative manual. And to change or amend the administrative manual, it requiers votes from regional regional pilots. Regional MECs can also solicity advice, council, facts, fromt he many departments within ALPA national. But there is no requirement to act on any of it. I know this because I have seen it first hand.

Whats in it for them is better qol because of job security. I thought you were all for brand scope?

And a superior chance of being furloughed. No thank you. Thanks for playing Commie, now go home. Joe at least looks out for me, and for that reason I like his views. Yours? Not so much. Bye.

Trojan

Not sure if that was for me but Ill reply anyways. What views exactly dont you like?

They want the same things that you and I want.

Of course they want the same thing. We all want better pay and qol. The question is, what can they do about it without a BA recognized by the NMB?

As an ASA ALPA volunteer, I can assure you that the Skywest pilots are pulling on the same rope. It is some ALPA carriers that are pulling against us at ASA. Mesa hurt us. Compass hurt us. The Skywest pilots are not "disrespectful" to me. How are they to you? Are the Mesa pilots "disrespectful" to you?

Our downward pressure isn't coming from our Skywest brothers. You are barking up the wrong tree and trying to pick a fight that isn't there. Do yourself and ALPA a failure. Please stop.

I can tell you from personal experience that SKW has applied downward pressure to at least on airline. The worst thing is that their pilots had no say or way to help mitigate that. In essence, they are pulling against us on the rope.

ALPA represents Mesa, and it puts downward pressure on ASA. ALPA created Compass, and it puts downward pressure on ASA.

The Skywest pilots aren't working on getting ASA pilots to reject ALPA. The movement is coming from ASA pilots who were ALPA reps. Former MEC members, and MEC officers are advocating dumping ALPA. Why is that? It isn't coming from Skywest pilots.

And just imagine how much worse it would be if Mesa or Compass were not ALPA/union. Do you think there would be more downward pressure then?

I hope this movement isnt because some see the situation at ASA as compared to SKW. Otherwise, the plan may be working better than they probably hoped for.

 

[USCtrojan]

How does he do that? You like his views because they appeal to a sense of bravado.... but it is all talk... better yet... please explain what his views have done for you and how his views "looks out for me"

He fights for ASA pilots. I like that. I don't care about you, you see. Joe is an ASA pilot and he fights in his way for ASA. I disagree with some of his stances, but most I agree. Most of yours I disagree with and about all of Commie_128's views I disagree with. Joe has a lot of balls to say what he does, much in the face of controversy. He does so, and respectfully I might add. Your views, admittedly I scroll through mostly. No offense, but you're incredibly boring, and quite frankly, you get schooled by Joe Merchant every time you square off. But that's just my opinion, nobody else's.

Joe has a LOT of experience, I respect that too. I've had the opportunity to speak to him personally about some of the issues at hand, and again, he's quite knowledgeable. I'm not gonna go into specifics, I'm sure there's so many posts between you two over the last year that can more than illustrate this point. Good luck to you. Regards,


Trojan