SkyWest IAH Base, What If ?

[Flyerdan]

Okay Einstein, answer me this; if CAL no longer exists, why does my ID still say Continental? My ops and flight manuals still have CAL on the front cover... and guess what, I'm still flying under our sh!tty CAL contract using the CAL FAA operating certificate. There's the reason CAL guys are pissed about this; we're still CAL pilots operating under a CAL certificate and CAL ALPA contract flying out of our CAL hubs. Our crap contract and its scope clause still exists, which means that flying 70 seaters under CAL flight numbers out of our hubs is a contract violation. But if you guys say CAL no longer exists, it must be true... I must've just missed the memo on that one.

Why is this so hard to understand?

I think you get my point. I'm sure it will take time to paint aircraft, replace ID tags, etc. But the bottom line (legally at least) is that the CAL entity really no longer exists. Also, I am fairly sure the flights talked about on this thread will be United Express flights flown in aircraft painted with United Express paint jobs. I have yet to see one of our Skywest/United Express 700's painted with Continental Express colors and there is zero chance that they would be painted those colors now.

Seriously, I can understand the frustration the CAL pilots feel but I also think they must have seen these and other changes coming with the news of the merger. I wish you all the best and hopefully the merger will lead to a stronger company, growth for the pilots, and an agreement on scope that will work out well for everyone.

 

[Nevets]

I think you get my point. I'm sure it will take time to paint aircraft, replace ID tags, etc. But the bottom line (legally at least) is that the CAL entity really no longer exists. Also, I am fairly sure the flights talked about on this thread will be United Express flights flown in aircraft painted with United Express paint jobs. I have yet to see one of our Skywest/United Express 700's painted with Continental Express colors and there is zero chance that they would be painted those colors now.

Seriously, I can understand the frustration the CAL pilots feel but I also think they must have seen these and other changes coming with the news of the merger. I wish you all the best and hopefully the merger will lead to a stronger company, growth for the pilots, and an agreement on scope that will work out well for everyone.

It has nothing to do with the color of the RJ. They can paint it like a banana for all I care, it's still a clear violation of the intent of the CAL scope clause. I'm frustrated about it and I'm not even a CAL/UAL pilot. This merger will lead to growth for their pilots IF we win this battle. Otherwise, plan to see more parked airbuses replaced by regional 50+ seat RJs and commensurate furloughs ala UALs furloughs when their 37s were parked in favor of large RJs.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

I think you get my point. I'm sure it will take time to paint aircraft, replace ID tags, etc. But the bottom line (legally at least) is that the CAL entity really no longer exists. Also, I am fairly sure the flights talked about on this thread will be United Express flights flown in aircraft painted with United Express paint jobs. I have yet to see one of our Skywest/United Express 700's painted with Continental Express colors and there is zero chance that they would be painted those colors now.

Seriously, I can understand the frustration the CAL pilots feel but I also think they must have seen these and other changes coming with the news of the merger. I wish you all the best and hopefully the merger will lead to a stronger company, growth for the pilots, and an agreement on scope that will work out well for everyone.

That's funny, the surviving name may be United, but the surviving certificate is Continental. But until SOC, as per the TPA, they will be run as TWO SEPARATE certificates/companies.

Yogi

 

[homerjdispatch]

That's funny, the surviving name may be United, but the surviving certificate is Continental. But until SOC, as per the TPA, they will be run as TWO SEPARATE certificates/companies.

Yogi

So since its TWO SEPARATE companies, SkyWest pilots should face no problems flying for UNITED as UNITED EXPRESS. I fail to see how this could violate your scope, until its ONE company....

 

[proptojet]

So since its TWO SEPARATE companies, SkyWest pilots should face no problems flying for UNITED as UNITED EXPRESS. I fail to see how this could violate your scope, until its ONE company....

CAL's scope prevents anything larger than a 50(Jet) seater from flying out of our hubs. They are trying to replace CO flights out of our hubs with 70 seaters using a CO flight number and listing the flights on coair.com. This is a violation of our scope. They are free to replace any current United flights that fly into IAH. Until we have a Joint contract and a integrated seniority list the two companies are separate. Our scope also prevents them from reducing our block hours. They are attempting to bring SkyWest pilots in to replace current CONTINENTAL Flying not UNITED.

 

[CRJ's suck]

I'm a CAL mechanic, and wondering. Are they shifting flying around between the two companies? I know Continental is supposed to start doing some more flights from ORD to some Florida destinations starting in February which sounds like when the regional flying is supposed to start in IAH (I may be wrong). If the block hours are the same for continental and no loss of work, is it really a Contract violation? That being said, it's still worth fighting the company for. If you give an inch they will take a mile.

Regards,
Brian

 

[EWR_FO]

If the block hours are the same for continental and no loss of work, is it really a Contract violation? That being said, it's still worth fighting the company for. If you give an inch they will take a mile.

Regards,
Brian

Our scope clause has nothing to do with block hours, it's really very simple AND black and white. Smisek is testing us, that's all- he has no idea the level of discontent he is throwing gas on.

 

[CRJ's suck]

Our scope clause has nothing to do with block hours, it's really very simple AND black and white. Smisek is testing us, that's all- he has no idea the level of discontent he is throwing gas on.

Thanks for the clarification. I hope alpa takes it to them then and puts a stop to it. It affects alot more jobs that just you guys. Hopefully alpa and the teamsters could work together on this. I would say good luck, but it sounds like a clear contract violation from what you're saying, so hopefully no "luck" will be involved.

Regards,
Brian

 

[Morning Wood]

So assuming that this arbitration rules in favor of the CO pilots. Would the current UAX flying being done from DEN and ORD be in violation of scope? Why, or why not?

 

[EWR_FO]

So assuming that this arbitration rules in favor of the CO pilots. Would the current UAX flying being done from DEN and ORD be in violation of scope? Why, or why not?

No because it is being done with UAL flight numbers, however it would fall under the Transition and Process Agreement that deals with block hours.

7-C. Flying Ratios. In each consecutive six (6) month period during separate operations beginning on the Merger Closing Date, the ratio of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by United to the aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by Continental, will equal or exceed ninety percent (90%) of the same ratio for the same six (6) month period during the period May 1, 2009 through April 30, 2010 (excluding United’s 737 scheduled aircraft block hours during the period May 1, 2009 through April 30, 2010). The applicable scheduled aircraft block hours for the period May 1, 2009 through April 30, 2010 are shown in Attachment C. Aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by Continental Aircraft will not be included under this paragraph if:
(i) the aircraft are listed as on order or in storage on Attachment A; and (ii) the aircraft enter or return to active service after the Merger Agreement Date; and
(iii) the aircraft are in addition to the number of aircraft in service as listed on Attachment A.
Similarly, adjustments to scheduled block hours for the same schedule from one period to another (i.e., the same aircraft on the same routing) will not affect the calculation, and reasonable block hour reductions attributable to aircraft removed from active service for purposes of modification or painting related to the merger will not be considered in the numerator or denominator of a ratio under this paragraph. The Airline Parties will advise the Association of such reductions.

 

[Morning Wood]

So assuming that this arbitration rules in favor of the CO pilots. Would the current UAX flying being done from DEN and ORD be in violation of scope? Why, or why not?

I should have clarified....current UAX flying from DEN and ORD to/from IAH.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

I should have clarified....current UAX flying from DEN and ORD to/from IAH.

That flying would be legal, as it's UAX flying out of UAL hubs. However, 70 seat jets flying out of CAL hubs to non-UAL hub cities is a violation of our scope clause.

 

[Flyerdan]

Was there an injunction filed on this issue? The bottom line seems to be that UAL will go forward with this flying unless stopped through a legal process. People tend to act like they know what they are talking about on these forums but most of the time they really don't have all the information and just pick and choose or make stuff up to support their position. I guess we will all know the real outcome soon. Either the flying will proceed or it won't.

My hunch is that the flying will proceed just the way UAL plans.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I think you get my point. I'm sure it will take time to paint aircraft, replace ID tags, etc. But the bottom line (legally at least) is that the CAL entity really no longer exists. Also, I am fairly sure the flights talked about on this thread will be United Express flights flown in aircraft painted with United Express paint jobs. I have yet to see one of our Skywest/United Express 700's painted with Continental Express colors and there is zero chance that they would be painted those colors now.

Seriously, I can understand the frustration the CAL pilots feel but I also think they must have seen these and other changes coming with the news of the merger. I wish you all the best and hopefully the merger will lead to a stronger company, growth for the pilots, and an agreement on scope that will work out well for everyone.

We will do whatever is necessary to take back all the flying we can in house and stop the BS of outsourcing our flying to the regionals. Either we FIX the mistake or we SHUT it down.

 

[ASADriver]

We will do whatever is necessary to take back all the flying we can in house and stop the BS of outsourcing our flying to the regionals. Either we FIX the mistake or we SHUT it down.

And you expect us to support you taking away our job? Go ahead and "shut it down". I'll look good in that 777.