SkyWest + Continental = Love

[SSDD]

Careful there Skyward, you sound a lot like the DL pilots, you know, stuff like all DL flying will be done by DL pilots, no way DALPA is going to allow it, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,... and they talked their way all the way to the unemployment line. Today there is more DCI/Skywest flying out of DFW and SLC than mainline.

I don't know how much saying CALALPA has on this matter, or whether the deal will go through, but I can GUARANTEE you one thing: Skywest is not going to make any deals that bypasses their seniority list. Keeping the union off the property is too important for their management. You could say that its a deal breaker.

 

[nimtz]

SkyWest would not have gone this far with the whole thing if they didn't believe they could get an acceptable outcome to the SkyWest pilot group. To those who proclaim that the union is in the drivers seat, don't hang your hat on it. Having your folks on the street makes your bargaining position weaker not stronger. Hopefully SkyWest will present a reasonable plan that all sides find acceptable. If your union tries to play hardball, SkyWest will walk and your boys remain unemployed. The attitude some here have that the terms will soley be dictated by the union. I believe compromise by all parties will usher in a contract where all benefit.

The only acceptable and realistic plan is that every FO position created by this agreement is first filled by a furloughed Expressjet pilot. That is not union hardball! The precedent and legality has been set with the Turboprop MOU, which you Skywest guys have never seen. If Skywest walks, fine go right ahead. They are the ones losing business in the end. Plus the pilots are losing additonal captain slots on the 120. Preferential interviews for are not a satisfactory alternative...

 

[Russ]

Skyward
I guess you have made it clear that you prefer all or nothing. I have to believe some of your pilots working outside their profession would be willing to compromise. Captain on the Brasilia is going very junior at SkyWest, as low as five months that I have seen. I have to believe it would go extremely junior in IAH, offering quick upgrade times to your folks.
The only options the union carries is to reject outright, or compromise. SkyWest is also in a take it or leave it position. SkyWest walks because of unacceptable terms and your unemployed pilots remain just that. This is a plan that has been in the works for quite awhile now. If CAL/Xjet went to Mesa or others, it would go through the same process and your pilots would be that much longer out of the cockpit.
The only ultimate power the union has is to keep your brother pilots out of work by refusing to play ball and find some acceptable middle ground. Surely the management of the union cannot be as near sighted as to spite their own pilots with some narrow view of what is right. That, however remains to be seen.
I feel confident in saying SkyWest will not allow something as one sided as your strict interpretation of the contract to be shoved down our throats, so my prediction is compromise by all sides or no deal. I admit, your union does have the power to cause it to happen or not. Who suffers the most if they say no? Your pilots, not ours.
Hopefully those who make the decisions for you understand that.

 

[hotwing]

amazing mindset

It is amazing what people speculate on this board and what they all think will happen. The truth is no one knows -- especially the line guys. They are the last to know. If I remember, XJET guys were the last to know about this one too. (hmmm) Why is it that you were not told and you found out late in the game.

This is going to be interesting... I do not think that ANYONE except for management knows what will happen and what is going on here... I do not think that everyone that thinks they run the company actually does... I think the guys in the suits run the companies and will make the decisions... It is fun to read all the speculatory crap on here though...

I do agree -- SKYWEST has always been great to the pilot group and I do not think that they will start now by giving XJET people captains positions... Just an opinion -- what do I know... Call me crazy - BUT IT IS NOT THE SKYWEST PILOT GROUP'S FAULT NOR THE COMPANY... CAL is going outside...

Hang in there --

 

[Russ]

Just checked a company BB. a veep who would be knee deep in these type of dealings posted about the status. He said that we(SkyWest) have agreed to hire some Xjet guys as FO's. They would be treated as new hires. No street Captains unless they can't get enough FO's to bid the left seat. that is darn close to the truth now within the existing Brasilia community. He was fairly clear in his language that the pilots would be hired and not just offered preferential interviews. Seems acceptable to me.

 

[hotwing]

pool?

Any idea for the people in the pool?

 

[flyskyw]

Any idea for the people in the pool?

When I spoke to the "veep" last week about this he said something to the effect that there are more than 250 pilots to consider 'PLUS' the 60 or so that are in the pool. The feeling of the discussion was that the pilots in the pool are a very high priority to him. Hope this helps.....

 

[GuppyPuppy]

If there's a compromise to be made we will have to do the flying otherwise no deal. CAL ALPA holds all the cards in this, they have to agree to it or no deal.

Geez...if I had a nickel for everytime I knew of a situation where management bent the contract I could retire in Monaco.

GP

 

[Skyward]

You guys aren’t getting it. Skywest coming into IAH isn’t creating any jobs! Skywest will be taking jobs from our pilots. What will happen is we will be flying to the destinations one month and the next Skywest will be flying there. All it is is a transfer of flying, no jobs are created. In fact we may have to furlough because of all the jobs we will lose. Our furloughed pilots are better off if we continue to do the flying. Then we can recall them faster. I can’t see any situation where our union would agree to the loss of our jobs.

 

[Paladin]

Skyward,
Great post...you hit the nail on the head. If these routes (VCT, ILE, CLL etc...) are taken over by Skywest, will XJT be expanding with enough new routes (ie. -145XR) to not have to furlough even more? With the deferral and slowing of RJ deliveries I think its fairly obvious that we're not. This deal will ultimately result in more XJT pilots on the street...and then I guess sliding into the right seat of one of our Brasilias and flying them for a different company.

 

[Rogue5]

Skyward -

As far as what is fair, I think it’s fair that we do our own flying. This isn’t Skywest’s flying, this is flying that I used to do on the 120 and currently do on the 145.

Skywest will be taking jobs from our pilots.

From what I gather, your company is voluntarily giving those jobs up. I believe you guys already filed a termination of service notice with the DOT (presumably because you can't run those routes profitably with the the "All Jet Fleet"), and you are being compelled to continue service until a suitable replacement is found. In reality, those jobs are already gone, whether they went to SkyWest, Mesa or whoever only remain(ed) to be seen.

If Skywest doesn't like our terms fine we got a bunch of 145's ready to go.

Apparently the bean counters at your company don't agree, that's why the flying is going to someone who flies turboprops.

How about this: Skywest gets contract to fly 120's out of IAH but they will be crewed by Express Jet pilots. Both CA and FO seats will be filled by Express Jet pilots. Not just Express Jet furloughed pilots, but anyone on the Express Jet list who wishes to bid a 120 seat. That's what I've been told by my union reps.

Then why not just dust off the Brasilias yourself? Who would retrain your pilots and what exactly would they be getting out of such a deal? Does what your rep told you make any sense at all?

Look, I know the situation looks like crap, but I think you need to direct you energies at your own company, own management, and own contract that allows flowback that throws your own guys out on the street, and give up profitable aircraft (turboprops) and therfore the routes that only they could serve. This loss of service may indeed cause further furloughs, BUT THAT IS NOT THE FAULT OF ANYONE OUTSIDE THE COMPANY. Look to your managemnt, not fellow pilots!

As far as the guys that are out on the street are concerned I would as much as anyone like to see them flying again. For those that have been out for a while, this deal is probably the best and quickest way to help get them back in the air (from what I understand some of them will be offered jobs). I have two good buddies that were furloughed from COEX. They are both very happy now flying for SkyWest.

 

[Skyward]

That is exactly what my union is doing, negotiating with management. Express Jet doesn’t want turbo props they want one fleet type. Otherwise we would be doing the flying. Since we cannot force our management to start flying turbo props again we will do the next best thing, use the leverage created in the prop MOU to become contract pilots for the airline who does want to fly turbo props. So, what my union reps have told me make perfect sense. No code share can take place in IAH or EWR without ALPA’s consent, that’s all I’ve been saying. I and everyone else at Express Jet will not let another airline into IAH or EWR if we can help it, and if we compromise we will do all the flying. That’s all I’ve been saying the whole time Skywest pilots my not like it, but I don’t care it’s not about Skywest pilots it’s about job protection for our pilots. Nowhere in the prop MOU does it say that we need to take into consideration the feelings of the pilots at another airline. Unions look after the best interests of there pilots and that is what our union is doing. I’m not concentrating my efforts on other pilots; just trying to get my point across, CAL ALPA has the final say in who does the flying period.

 

[Rogue5]

Cool your jets...

Okay, okay, I give up... Lemme tell ya, I truly hope for the best of all pilots involved.

Perhaps, given management's decision to not fly props, and your contract's flow-back, the best thing you guys could do for the "job protection" of your pilots, at least those on the street, is to help this deal along and get them back flying again, albeit with another airline. I would have to imagine XJET's timeline for furlough recall is extremely longterm.

I just hope people can look at this thing rationally. I have to warn you though, the last time I heard your kind of "over my dead body" union militancy it was coming from the mouths of United employees who, in retrospect, really meant it...

 

[hotwing]

1

 

[JBcrjca]

It's almost like talking to a wall.

Skyward says:

As far as what is fair, I think it’s fair that we do our own flying. This isn’t Skywest’s flying, this is flying that I used to do on the 120 and currently do on the 145. When has Skywest flown to CLL, BPT, LCH, VCT ect. This is flying we currently do, is it fair that Skywest pilots fly to those destinations.

Well, it's not exactly CALEx flying, now is it? The flying actually belongs to CAL and they can divide it up as they see fit. CAL mainline pilots could say the same thing about all the flying CALEx is doing these days. Look at how many routes are flown with ERJs that used to be flown with B737, MD-80s, etc. But when CALEx gained flying from the mainline, I'm sure the Ex pilots weren't too worried about taking flying that used to be flown by mainline crews.

Most of the majors are mixing up regionals that feed their hubs. The regionals don't OWN any flying. Look at DFW for example...that was an ASA stronghold, but DCI has mixed it up with Comair, SkyWest, and Chautauqua flying routes that used to be just ASAs (and Delta's, sadly). Comair and ASA are now flying routes out of SLC that used to be SkyWest flying. SKW crews aren't too worried about it...I think most understand that we just do what the major partner decides. UAL is mixing up the hubs with Air Wisconsin in LAX, and SkyWest at DEN. I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point. CAL OWNS that IAH flying.

We're all just pi$$ing in the wind anyway. None of us knows what will really happen here. If the CALEx pilots stand by the MOU with an all-or-nothing attitude, SkyWest will walk away...and the pilots stay on furlough that much longer, until a new partner can be found. If CALEx mgmt doesn't want to operate turboprops, that's their choice. But you can't expect other pilot groups (ie SkyWest) let you fly their airplanes while going around the seniority list.

Whew, I feel better now.

 

[Skyward]

If SkyWest walks away Express Jet continues to fly the routes, and Express Jet pilots are better off.

 

[hotwing]

calm down

SKYWARD -- you seriosly need to get over this stuff and let time play out. CAL owns the flying and controls it. Cool down over there! Let's all just sit back and wait... You nor I noe anyone else knows what will happen right now... I too have a lot of friends at XJET but, I do know that it is not right for XJET pilots to sit in the seats of SKYWEST planes in ALL CAPACITIES. Now, maybe being hired in at the bottom of the list would work but, come on, is it fair for the company that is coming in at the request of your company (CAL) for all the flying to go to XJET people? You should be upset with CAL - not SKYWEST people....

 

[EMBATP]

check this out

how about fedex? they own all those caravans/f-27's/atr's!that is all fedex flying, yet those a/c are owned by fedex, leased to other companies, and flown by those companies pilots. so basically you have a company flying anothers a/c and routes with it's own pilots.

 

[Russ]

SkyWard
Are you willing to predict here and now that the outcome WILL BE exactly as outlined in the prop MOU? Are you willing to rule out a scenario in which some compromise is reached? Yes or no.

 

[Comrade Duck]

The word from one of our VP's here at SkyWest is that some furloughed pilots will be offered positions, will be treated as newhires and will be put at the bottom of the list. Nobody is going directly to the left seat from off the street unless for some reason there are not enough eligible FO's who want to bid for the spot. That's very unlikely.

Take it for what it is worth. I read it today on our company message board. After the way management handled the J4J deal, I would tend to belive our VP is telling it how it is. That is the agreament SkyWest is working with.

That is as close to factual as I can offer. As far as speculating, I will echo some other posts already given. If the terms are set in stone as Skyward says they are and ALPA is calling all of the shots, I don't see this thing happening. SkyWest won't go for it under those conditions. I would assume SkyWest will say thanks but no thanks.

I don't think ALPA is calling all the shots though. The rumor around here is that this thing is a done deal. The negotiations have already been made. I think you will see some furloughed COEX guys working those flights, but the majority of it will be staffed by existing or soon to be newhired SkyWest pilots.

That's just my opinion.