Skywest: Confessions Of A Kool-Aid Drinker

[sweptback]

So as I understand it, if I lose my license for whatever reason and can't get it back then this LOL insurance will pay out a lump sum to cover training for another field.

Now if I get violated by the Feds and they come after my license then I will have the legal backing of ALPA at no additional charge. Furthermore, if I have any problems with my health and need help getting my medical back then I will have the assistance of ALPA aeromedical at no additional charge.

Thanks for any clarifications.

That's correct, except loss of license in the sense of the insurance covers losing your medical, not if you go out and bust an altitude and the FAA yanks all your certificates.

 

[SeeYa]

Is it true that my 2% towards ALPA does not cover medical loss coverage? If so, how much more does it cost? If that is true I can guarantee that will be a big blow towards the fence sitters at SkyWest.

This is true. Loss of license / loss of medical insurance is NOT included in your dues. (Basic insurance coverage IS included for the first year you are an ALPA member - thus some ALPA supporters have inferred that it is included in your dues.) The additional cost is based on the level of coverage you elect, and your age. I simply contacted a friend at an ALPA carrier for my rate and benefit information. (I apologize for not remembering what it was and I do not want to post a guess.)

If I can give you some advice Magneto, inform your skywest pilots about alpa. Talk to some of the ASA pilots who have jumped ship.

I agree - One of the great assets we have at SkyWest is a large number of former United, Eagle, ASA, Mesa, and Mesaba pilots. TALK TO THEM. I have found most are more than happy to lay out their opinions of ALPA, both positive and negative. Talking to these true professionals has made my decision very easy.

An example from an ALPA supporter:

We have endured a dark period in ALPA's history. In the last 8 years, ALPA has failed to properly represent regional airline pilots.

Just my opinion: a SkyWest "yes" vote will not change that.

Thanks all for the great input into this thread, and for keeping it educational instead of confrontational. Remember, we are all professionals deserving of each other's respect.

 

[rickair7777]

You are absolutely correct about work rules affecting pay. However, Mesa does have higher hourly wages on the 900 than Skywest. I believe their contract is up for negotiation soon, and you can expect them to raise all their pay rates, as well as better their work rules, when the new contract is settled. This time around, they don't have an alter-ego to worry about, and I support them in working for a better contract.

OK, they have a higher hourly rate. I actually get paid more to fly a 200 at SKW than a 900 at mesa (and I've actually done both). I'm referring to ACTUAL REAL MONEY, not some fantasy "hourly rate".

Maybe the mesa pilots can all get T-shirts made with their payscale printed on the front (and an alpa logo too!). Without workrules (and they have ZERO) that "payscale" is meaningless.

 

[pilotbrain]

I hate to burst your bubble but we had lots of crewmembers happy with their "little niche in the world" in Paso Robles, Bakersfield, Yuma, Pocatello, and even St. George before those domiciles were all closed...you should be concerned with such things!

Exactly my point...i would probably have to vote NO to alpa because i really think it would force me to a new domicile.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Exactly my point...i would probably have to vote NO to alpa because i really think it would force me to a new domicile.

Huh??? Those closures had absolutly nothing to do with ALPA!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Exactly my point...i would probably have to vote NO to alpa because i really think it would force me to a new domicile.

P.S. Regardless, a vote for ALPA at SKYW wouldn't affect you at ho jets anyway...oops forgot, your new story is you work at SKYW?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Would anybody here like to work for Southwest? I'll go first: yes, I would. There you have an example of a unionized labor groups (SWAPA works alongside the gorrillas of representation, like the IAM) working with management for mutual benefit. It can be done. If your culture and levels of mutual respect are as high as advertised, then formal representation will work fantastically.

Skywest pilots.... here it is right here in a nutshell....

Why does LUV have great managment/union relations. cause the IAM are really nice perky girl scouts?


Being a part of ALPA isn't only about what can be done about your local situation at SW.

There is alot going on at the national and international level. many ALPA pilots support thier local reps but can't stand the National scene. However, both are equally important.

Find out why.

 

[Terrain Terrain]

ALPA at sw would not be cool. If you worked at another regional before SW that had ALPA, imagine that crappy feeling that pilots had towards mngt and vise versa, well that would happen at sw also. Then there would be the ASA Skywest merge down the road. That would also suck, imagine a ton of numbers coming in on top of you. Anyone hired in the last 3 years would be screwed. All those reasons you left your old airline and came to skywest would be mute because it would of been in vain. It seems for the most part the guys that want to bring ALPA to skywest, have never worked under a ALPA contract before. I suggest that anyone with questions about alpa talk to someone that has paid dues/worked under a alpa contract before. Its not a pretty story.

 

[sweptback]

Then there would be the ASA Skywest merge down the road. That would also suck, imagine a ton of numbers coming in on top of you. Anyone hired in the last 3 years would be screwed.

You're thinking short term. Long term a merger would be good for all parties involved.

 

[www.]

If we do vote in ALPA....what would this do to the two pilot seniority lists???Asking because I have no idea.

Both side would put a couple of people together to work it out. It would benefits both groups.

 

[www.]

Kiss your current company culture good bye.

I would wait... as long as you can. Perhaps consider something like southwest's union down the road, if need be.

The change in the culture is already upon SKW Airlines. Once you get to a certain size it will change. Ask any senior SWA pilot to compare 1980s to the 2000. The original LUV Fest is over.

As for waiting, why wait for the inevitable. Start working on it now. Putting both groups togther is a money saver. JA knows that and at sometime it will happen to increase the margin a couple of points.

 

[www.]

1. ALPA at sw would not be cool.
2. Then there would be the ASA Skywest merge down the road. That would also suck, imagine a ton of numbers coming in on top of you. Anyone hired in the last 3 years would be screwed.
3. It seems for the most part the guys that want to bring ALPA to skywest, have never worked under a ALPA contract before.
4. Its not a pretty story.

1. You have a crystal ball?
2. From a business stand point, it will happen. You, nor any other pilot, has control over this. And as for the screwed part. Work together. Not everyone will be happy.
3. Have you?
4. Once again, you have a crystal ball? They may not have worked at an ALPA airline but I'll tell you they have worked at SKYW longer than you and remember the past. Talk to the guys that have been at SKYW for 10 to 20 years and ask them why there should be a union. It may not be ALPA but it should be a union that is recognized in D.C.

Everyone has a story. And they will tell you what THEY want you to hear. Read between the lines of the complaining that ALPA didn't do this or that and look to see if they participated with their union or sat on the side lines.

Your either part of the problem or part of the solution. If your part of the problem you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

Get your own in house union. ALPA only looks out for the big guys you work for and would love to have you under their control. The Teamsters are another option but they have their own problems. Pay your dues money to your own in house union. It would take some serious work by some very dedicated SW people, but it would be the best bang for your buck.

Just another thought to add...........................

 

[imacdog]

Exactly my point...i would probably have to vote NO to alpa because i really think it would force me to a new domicile.

According to this post:

Grunt, Are you going to be based in Denver....I hear the new class is Denver or Colorado Springs....got my app in hoping for either.

In this thread:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1129614#post1129614

You aren't even at Skywest yet. So how does that work?

 

[ballsdeep123]

Great post all,

First of all I don't claim to be an expert on the subject of unions, but in my observations of how they work and how they work in the airline industry is this:

There seems to be some confusion on who's to blame when airlines start to go bad. A lot of arguments I've heard on here want to blame ALPA for pilots getting treated bad when their airline started to struggle. It's not the unions fault that the company made terrible decisions and now they're desperate to cut costs in any way they can. The relationship between ALPA and management is only as bad as the two groups allow it to be. In many cases it's managements fault for lying to the pilot group. SkyWest seems to have a great relationship with their employees. That a great thing and I think it wouldn't really change if you unionized, but like I said I'm no expert. ALPA is nothing more than pilots representing themselves with some financial backing. It also gives them some other insurance type benefits that have been talked about in this thread, that I find very important in this industry where there are lots of things that can get you fired or unqualified to be a pilot.

Things are great at SkyWest right now, which is why the relationship is so good between management and its pilots. Things used to be that way with many of the airlines that have ALPA, but have deteriorated over the years because of mis-management and a declining economy. Things aren't bad at these companies because ALPA made it bad, they are bad because of the airline itself. The same thing would happen at SkyWest if they were in the same situation, except their pilot group wouldn't have any financial backing and would be forced to take whatever management gave them. What would have happened to these pilot groups that are struggling right now without ALPA is what people should be asking instead of pointing the finger. It is my opinion that pilots are worth a certain amount of money and shouldn't be willing to work for anything less than what's fair. And I for one, am not willing to finance my companies growth. They want to grow just as bad as I do and could do so without stealing money from pilots.

Continue on with the chlorophyll, more like borophyll.

 

[bayoubandit]

Things are great for SKW Inc. I wouldn't go as far as to say that things are great with employee relations. It's alot better than others out there, but stop to take some time to talk to the rampers and see what they think. Talk to the pilots who aren't trapped in the bubble.

In my opinion most of the pilots are tired of mgmt posturing and postponing. The pilots are taking the path, whether right or wrong at this point, of not penalizing the customers and other employee groups by creating disorder. It's just the way it is at SKW.

 

[Publishers]

The biggest difference in the SWA and Air Tran model is that they are working. Secondly SWA is a majors now. The term is Legacy.
Having a procedure for flight lines is not necessarily a union thing.
Yes, the system works great unless your carrier went out of business or you were furloughed for several years, or, your carrier merged with another, or your carrier dumped your pension plan, or you were dropped back to a F/O position, or etc, etc...
Lastly, I think it has been well determined that I work in the industry and have for 35 years, know exactly how ALPA works or doesn't depending on your viewpoint, and am really impressed that you have a BMW. I had a Mercedes but the thing required more shop visits than I could stand so I went back to go old Toyota. Frankly I would have thought you would have wanted to support your union friends in Detroit who have been on a downhill slide.

 

[SeeYa]

Get your own in house union. ALPA only looks out for the big guys you work for and would love to have you under their control.

Some SkyWest pilots tried that a few years ago and it failed miserably; 32% yes vote. The union was very poorly organized and the leaders had somewhat poor reputations amongst their peers. The UPA's decision to send the infamous "Anonymous SkyWest Spouse" letter was the icing on the cake for most. (An anonymous letter mailed to all pilots telling how horrible her husband's life was at SkyWest.)

Unfortunately, it is many of the same individuals that are leading the ALPA drive.

They do have Ron Rindfleisch from ALPA heading the whole thing, but my own repeated e-mails to him with pertinant questions have not been returned. (Good job in the communication department, ALPA...)

As far as ALPA only looking out for the big guys... That is my primary reason for voting "no" to ALPA. The situation at Mesaba is just the latest example of this.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

Total BS, you are either lying to support alpa (I'm starting to see a trend here actually) or grossly uninformed. Mesa's hourly rate is meaningless, because they do not get paid for most of their duty time. You could come to work to do 2 PHX-TUS turns with a 4 hour sit and get paid 1:20. If your block is scheduled at 00:30, that is what you get paid, even if your block-block is 5 hours.

Delays? No Pay
Scheduled Sit: No Pay
Wx Canx: No Pay
Mx Canx: You should get paid, but this will be re-coded as Wx: No Pay
Duty Time: No Pay
30 hour Overnight: No Pay

Then you should also know that they had to settle for this contract because had to get scope. Without scope $100 hr does not mean anything. For example if the ASA guys get a new contract and take major cuts where do you the flying would shift to?

 

[FlyinScotsman]

Some SkyWest pilots tried that a few years ago and it failed miserably; 32% yes vote. The union was very poorly organized and the leaders had somewhat poor reputations amongst their peers. The UPA's decision to send the infamous "Anonymous SkyWest Spouse" letter was the icing on the cake for most. (An anonymous letter mailed to all pilots telling how horrible her husband's life was at SkyWest.)

Unfortunately, it is many of the same individuals that are leading the ALPA drive.

They do have Ron Rindfleisch from ALPA heading the whole thing, but my own repeated e-mails to him with pertinant questions have not been returned. (Good job in the communication department, ALPA...)

As far as ALPA only looking out for the big guys... That is my primary reason for voting "no" to ALPA. The situation at Mesaba is just the latest example of this.

I am sorry to hear it went that way. An in house union would be best for SKYW, they need some representation, but I don't think ALPA or IBT would work for them. Look at AA and Southwest they only have to look after themselves and their interests, not have the national shove things down their throat.