Skywest: Confessions Of A Kool-Aid Drinker

[mckpickle]

Thanks for the replies. All except mckpickle have added constructrive posts. Asapilot, A-V-8 and Atrdriver , thanks for your points of view. It is refreshing when we can share ideas in a rational way. Too often pro ALPA people are very quick with the insults and threats and I believe they do much more harm to their cause than good, but these boards attract the extremists and I believe most pilots whether ALPA or not have valid ideas.
Is what SeeYa posts true? I was thinking about loss of medical and loss of licence, does that require additional funds ontop of the 2% dues? How much?

Unconstructive....ya right. I simply said I couldn't deal with your post because of the kool-aide. Face it, you milking off the teet of what other UNIONIZE groups have gained for you. You didn't do shiit yourselves. If it were not for us you'd be paid a heck of a lot less. Not to mention that you contribute nothing to the industry as a whole. Your assertions are moot since you don't know how unions work at other carriers and the things we do for our pilots and the industry.

I'm not going to sit here and blow sunshine up your apu. Get with the freakin program. I'm also not going to suger coat it. Get with the program. If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
And BTW, you were way off base on the asertion that only coex and Comair were PFT.

 

[CFIT]

Gobi, Don't know what could happen down the road, with or without APLA a management shakeup could have dire results. The only thing that I can be very certain of is a terrible environment until a contract is set, and that will take years.

McPimple, blo-me

 

[auspac]

Mckpickle, I'm guessing that you were never on your college debate team. Well neither was I, but the use of insults and threats to try to express a point of view seems to only work to lower the readers' impression of you. I have reread my original post and can't seem to locate where I said that only Comair and Continental Express were PFT. I used two examples but did not say they were exclusive. Now, you could have put forth the intelligent argument that it was because of unions that the two pilot groups were able to move from the kind of management that required PFT to the kind of contract that the pilot groups now enjoy. Likewise, someone who is anti-ALPA could use the argument that because Skwest has the type of management who never imposed PFT when, as you imply, many other airlines were, then we don't need representation now. See how that works, intelligent arguments can be made and there's really no need to resort to the insults and vulgarities.

For everyone else, I thank you for your responses and I encourage the intelligent, thoughtful debate to continue (Mckpickle, that doesn't seem to include you.)

 

[atrdriver]

Gobi, Don't know what could happen down the road, with or without APLA a management shakeup could have dire results. The only thing that I can be very certain of is a terrible environment until a contract is set, and that will take years.

McPimple, blo-me

Then that sctually says quite a lot about your management, if you are convinced that the forming of a union would turn them against the pilot group. If Skywest management is as great as everyone says I would expect them to look at it as a challenge, and quickly try to make the new relationship as profitable and harmonious as possible.

 

[ASACAPT]

With respect to the fear of Skywest management creatively reintrpeteing of your Standard Practices while negotiating your first contract, STAUS QUO will protect you. The RLA is very clear that any anti union activities from the company during this time is strictly prohibited. You are right that they could, and very well will drag out the negotiations. But at least you will have a contract in the end.

 

[rickair7777]

With respect to the fear of Skywest management creatively reintrpeteing of your Standard Practices while negotiating your first contract, STAUS QUO will protect you. The RLA is very clear that any anti union activities from the company during this time is strictly prohibited. You are right that they could, and very well will drag out the negotiations. But at least you will have a contract in the end.

I don't NEED a contract...I had that at my last airline and it was a worthless POS. What little it offered was simply ignored by management at their convenience (Grieve It!). The local alpa MEC were @ss clowns at best, crooks at worst.

SKW treats me just fine in regards to, pay, QOL and, most importantly, dignity. If that changes, then it might be time for a union. I do get somewhat incensed when people here tell me how poorly I am treated at SKW...I know damn-well what poor treatment REALLY is because I have lived it for years at an alpa operation.

I would also be very open to a NATIONAL union movement...alpa in it's current incarnation simply collects dues for the national unit, but leaves the locals to fend for themselves...I know, I know, it's not alps's fault it's MY fault because I elected my local reps. OK, fine but I can keep my local morons without paying Duane's salary too (I need it more than he does).

If alpa (or hopefully a replacement national union) were to take a PUBLIC stand with SPECIFIC pay, workrule, QOL, and benefit standards for all different sizes of airliners then THAT would be worth persuing... Everybody meets at least the same minimum standard...if you work somewhere that does not meet the standard, you are blacklisted. Period. Obviously there would be a grace period for the various pilot groups to get their contracts up to par and/or find new jobs. This would put the responsibility to compete effectively in the hands of operations managers, and remove pilot compensation as a competetive weapon.

 

[SkyNation]

If Skywest management is as great as everyone says I would expect them to look at it as a challenge, and quickly try to make the new relationship as profitable and harmonious as possible.

atrdriver,

your posts are usually well thought out and well presented. you can't really think that Jerry, Brad and Ron would, or should, say 'hey, this will be a fun and interesting challenge-let's do it!'

 

[Publishers]

For the most part, this has been one of the most intelligent threads in some time.
The basic history lesson is that the strength of unions as organizations was the result of that which was gained under regulation. Literally the whole system in the commercial airline world was a result of that period --very little since.
In a deregulated environment, there will always be new upstarts and violent swings in the economy and airline industry. Those that think they are the beneficiary of such may stop to think about an industry where if you change companies, you go back to ground zero.
While there may be arguments for organized labor, there are hundreds of thousands of job holders who seem to be doing fine without the necessity of someone to speak for them. Another aspect is whether industry wide labor groups are a good thing compared to having an in house union that tends to deal more with issues surrounding a particular company.
If anything, in this industry, there is this concpet that managment really controls and manipulates labor. From my perspective, there are few businesses where one has less control of ones business than in this one. The burden of regulations, accounting, insurance issues, on and on make this a business where many things happen to you not of your choice. If recent developments have shown you anything, it is that market forces can make your contract worthless, will still control your future, and can never be dictated by some document. When Comair may be uncompetitive for its own parent, it says something about the state of affairs.

 

[auspac]

Great post Publishers. There have been many great pro-ALPA points brought up in this discussion but in today's environment whether you have a contract or not when things really get bad can't management pretty much impose their will? In some cases the speed at which management can move without having to deal with a union can lead to far greater oppurtunities for their employees. Of course that can well go the other way too.

 

[sweptback]

In some cases the speed at which management can move without having to deal with a union can lead to far greater oppurtunities for their employees. Of course that can well go the other way too.

Please give me an example about how having a union would impede a company from pursuing new business opportunities.