Skywest: Confessions Of A Kool-Aid Drinker

[Gr82Aviate]

No, I wouldn't....but I am happy with my little niche in the world and would hate to think I could end up commuting because I lose seniority....guess Im being selfish and shouldn't be concerned with such things.

I hate to burst your bubble but we had lots of crewmembers happy with their "little niche in the world" in Paso Robles, Bakersfield, Yuma, Pocatello, and even St. George before those domiciles were all closed...you should be concerned with such things!

 

[bender]

Should JA do the unthinkable, would OOs current agreement be in force? A real contract would be....

We can take all of ALPAs fear-based scenarios to an extreme here. Instead of thinking of all the worst case scenarios without a contract, you should look at the 34 year history of how SKW treats its employees. Make your decision based on current facts and past history...

Have you ever noticed that every single person in management save one has put in 20+ years at the company?

 

[atrdriver]

Have you ever noticed that every single person in management save one has put in 20+ years at the company?

So how much longer before they retire and new management come into being? JA won't be there forever, no matter how much you wish for it.

 

[bayoubandit]

We can take all of ALPAs fear-based scenarios to an extreme here. Instead of thinking of all the worst case scenarios without a contract, you should look at the 34 year history of how SKW treats its employees. Make your decision based on current facts and past history...

Have you ever noticed that every single person in management save one has put in 20+ years at the company?

Just look at the change in the last 4 years. It's not the same airline as it was and it will not be the same as it is now in the future. Mgmt. has protected themselves nicely. Why are the pilots so afraid to stand up for themselves?

 

[Weasil]

As a new guy at SkyW I was at the Candlewood the other day. Interestingly enough those guys/gals talking about how great ALPA is had to change the subject when i asked them how ALPA helped Mesaba pilots with company declaring Ch.11 even though Mesaba was profitable.

Release #06.MSA9
October 3, 2006
Mesaba Employees Propose Plan to Save Airline
Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics Present Joint Proposal to Management; Only Remaining Issue is Level of Profitability
MINNEAPOLIS – Labor unions representing pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics at bankrupt Mesaba Airlines today presented airline management with an unprecedented joint offer to save their airline, their jobs, and their contracts.
“Mesaba has over sixty years of pride as a ‘Hometown Airline,’ with great people, great service, and an impeccable safety and performance record. By attacking labor, and using the court system to impose unnecessarily severe cuts in wages and benefits, management is destroying Mesaba,” states Capt. Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, International. “The employees built this airline, and we are doing our best to save it.”
The Mesaba Labor Coalition has offered wage, work rule and benefit concessions that will cut labor costs by 15% for the next three years. Because airline contracts do not terminate, the savings will continue well beyond that term. If Mesaba agrees to the proposal, the unions would begin a ratification process immediately.
Mesaba will not only be able to reorganize and exit successfully from bankruptcy with the level of cuts offered by the unions, but it would also achieve profit margins that substantially exceed those of previous years. Mesaba proposes to cut labor costs so that it can achieve an 8% profit margin. The coalition plan will enable Mesaba to produce at least a 6% margin. In recent years, profit margins have dwindled to just 2-3%.
“We are not talking about the difference between Mesaba being in the red or the black anymore,” said Nathan Winch, a mechanic and Mesaba Airline Representative for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. “The Coalition’s proposal guarantees that labor is giving enough to make Mesaba profitable. We say a 6% profit margin is sufficient, and if management is going to liquidate over another point or two on the margin, there is nothing we can do.”

If Mesaba elects to throw out the labor contracts, the unions intend to strike, which would end service to cities that rely on Mesaba as their only airline transportation. The unions may strike when Mesaba stops adhering to the terms of their contracts. In the wake of Mesaba’s announcement that it intends to impose new terms on October 15, the unions strongly urge the traveling public to take steps to avoid travel on Northwest Airlink on and after that date.
“Going on strike is the last resort,” said Tim Evenson, President of the Association of Flight Attendants unit at Mesaba, “because we would rather provide the same exceptional service that Mesaba is known for day in and day out. But, we will not work for wages that qualify our members for food stamps. Mesaba should not be permitted to exploit the bankruptcy process to require the government to supplement our earnings. No citizen of this country should have to bear that burden, especially while our holding company harbors millions of dollars in profits earned by Mesaba in previous years.”

Those who use Southwest as a pro-ALPA argument are not 100% correct either because Southwest was built on great employee/employer relationships. The union didn't take part on something that they already had.

Southwest is NOT ALPA.

 

[FlyingToIST]

Release #06.MSA9
October 3, 2006
Mesaba Employees Propose Plan to Save Airline
Pilots, Flight Attendants and Mechanics Present Joint Proposal to Management; Only Remaining Issue is Level of Profitability
MINNEAPOLIS – Labor unions representing pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics at bankrupt Mesaba Airlines today presented airline management with an unprecedented joint offer to save their airline, their jobs, and their contracts.
“Mesaba has over sixty years of pride as a ‘Hometown Airline,’ with great people, great service, and an impeccable safety and performance record. By attacking labor, and using the court system to impose unnecessarily severe cuts in wages and benefits, management is destroying Mesaba,” states Capt. Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, International. “The employees built this airline, and we are doing our best to save it.”
The Mesaba Labor Coalition has offered wage, work rule and benefit concessions that will cut labor costs by 15% for the next three years. Because airline contracts do not terminate, the savings will continue well beyond that term. If Mesaba agrees to the proposal, the unions would begin a ratification process immediately.
Mesaba will not only be able to reorganize and exit successfully from bankruptcy with the level of cuts offered by the unions, but it would also achieve profit margins that substantially exceed those of previous years. Mesaba proposes to cut labor costs so that it can achieve an 8% profit margin. The coalition plan will enable Mesaba to produce at least a 6% margin. In recent years, profit margins have dwindled to just 2-3%.
“We are not talking about the difference between Mesaba being in the red or the black anymore,” said Nathan Winch, a mechanic and Mesaba Airline Representative for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. “The Coalition’s proposal guarantees that labor is giving enough to make Mesaba profitable. We say a 6% profit margin is sufficient, and if management is going to liquidate over another point or two on the margin, there is nothing we can do.”

If Mesaba elects to throw out the labor contracts, the unions intend to strike, which would end service to cities that rely on Mesaba as their only airline transportation. The unions may strike when Mesaba stops adhering to the terms of their contracts. In the wake of Mesaba’s announcement that it intends to impose new terms on October 15, the unions strongly urge the traveling public to take steps to avoid travel on Northwest Airlink on and after that date.
“Going on strike is the last resort,” said Tim Evenson, President of the Association of Flight Attendants unit at Mesaba, “because we would rather provide the same exceptional service that Mesaba is known for day in and day out. But, we will not work for wages that qualify our members for food stamps. Mesaba should not be permitted to exploit the bankruptcy process to require the government to supplement our earnings. No citizen of this country should have to bear that burden, especially while our holding company harbors millions of dollars in profits earned by Mesaba in previous years.”

Southwest is NOT ALPA.

I know WN is not ALPA, but it has the union representation. My argument was against the union representation, not just ALPA. Also anytime in the history that employees tried to save the airline, it went bad for them. (Ask UAL guys/gals about their ESOP)

Now, if ALPA was working on issues that would REALLY save this industry, such as a single seniority list, than I'd go for it. Their fights have been fought for so many years without logical/practical basis.

As you can see Mesaba is still giving concessions.. Why do you think the airline went ahead and declared Ch.11? That IS the "I can do what I want" card that any management can play these days. No MATTER WHAT!!!

That's the source of the problem these days... This will sound too polical for you but at the time of this president there will be no airline strikes; AND no airline management will go to the oil companies and pull the tricks that they are pulling on the labor for high fuel costs..

In last 10 years airlines reduced their costs dramatically. The most prominent one has been with the distribution costs, like selling more direct tickets to customer. Compared to 10 years ago now most of the airlines sell their tickets more online than any other means.

What we are facing as labor is the rush to the new entrants with the hopes of getting better inhouse seniority. That's why AirTrans and JetBlues are more attractive than some other airline. That's also why the new entrants are able to undercut majors; low cost of fresh employer body.

After UAL, and now DL the race to the bottom of the cost is going on..
One thing that DL should learn from UAL experience that lowest cost doesn't necessarily mean the best service. Yes, your lower cost may look good on the paper, but there are many untengible factors affecting the contractor's performance, like happy work force.

If you asked UAL which one they would be happier with (SkyW vs. Mesa) I am sure everybody would know the answer.

I think SkyW is going to grow. Do we need better work rules and better wages? I wouldn't mind getting a buck or two per hour BUT I am glad that i am not in a place that pays me by the flight hour, instead of the block time.

At the same time, if you know a think or two about game theory, it takes only one bottom fisher to ruin it for others.. Look at how scope cause (no hets higher than 50 seats), that was supposed to protect major flying was out of the door few years later..

 

[limpyoke]

ALPA by-laws require that if one ALPA carrier purchases another and the pilot groups are integrated, a fair and equitable integration must take place. Yea right!!

Skywest pilots need a different union than ALPA to represent them in a possible intergration of the seniority lists.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Don't you work for ho jets??

737

You are correct, in several previous posts he "claimed" to work for ho jets...now he's "claiming" to be a Skyw pilot. Getting caught lying and then denying!

 

[pilot05]

You will never have it perfect. The pilot group will never be totally content. Skywest appears to be towards the top of this steaming pile of an industry. All for free. Why toss it away and then take a 2% paycut?

Kiss your current company culture good bye. Management would have no choice but to open up the mesa playbook and run. Game on. The potential cost would be too high for the company if they didn't.

A lot of airlines need unions. Like mesa. And what is mesa's result? The proof is in the pudding. However, they can tell people they are part of the underpaid boys club. Great. I'm sure your wife and kids sleep better in the trailer knowing dad has an alpo sticker on his flight kit.

I would wait... as long as you can. Perhaps consider something like southwest's union down the road, if need be.

 

[atrdriver]

As you can see Mesaba is still giving concessions.. Why do you think the airline went ahead and declared Ch.11? That IS the "I can do what I want" card that any management can play these days. No MATTER WHAT!!!

No, BK is not an "I can do whatever I want card". They still have to go through the 1113c process to void a labor contract, which is actually very rarely given by BK courts.