Skywest: Confessions Of A Kool-Aid Drinker

[Morning Wood]

So tell me what you think having a union on property is doing to prevent "flexibility". If the company comes to the union as equals and respect, then there is no loss of flexibility at all. If management decides to treat the union
as an adversary, then there will be problems. But that happens whether there is a union or not. The way I read your post it sounds like the flexibility that they need is payrates, and that is just not the case.

I'll give you two examples. Delta's contract about 10 years ago prohibited reflowing of crews in their own domicile. United Shuttle crews had provisions limiting and/or prohibiting airplane swaps on the last day of their trip. How is that for flexibility? We have people now running around thinking that as soon as ALPA is on the property that airplane swaps will magically go away. If that isn't a perfect example of shortsightedness and "what can ALPA do for me", then I don't know what is.

 

[Steveair]

I don't feel ALPA is going to earn 900 dollars / year from my paycheck. The ALPA promoter FO chick called the other day to tell me how great it was that ALPA paid COMAIR pilots while they were on strike. Glad to see ALPA is doing so much for them now... The nails are in the coffin.

 

[Crossky]

I didn't know that AWAC pilots had made concessions, I thought they lost UAL flying because they wouldn't, so I stand corrected there.

Yea, many didn't know that us AWAC pilots voted for a United BK concession equivalent to a 15% cut for the CRJ pilots and more for the Bae-146 pilots. The company didn't do a good PR job in representing our sacrifices to United and the UAX carriers, and didn't pass on the savings to United. When we rebid the United flying a year after our concession went into effect, our MEC said absolutely no to considering another concession.

I mean no offense to SKW pilots, but consider that your Pilot to Pilot and management-management relations with ASA would be better if you were represented by ALPA. ALPA by-laws require that if one ALPA carrier purchases another and the pilot groups are integrated, a fair and equitable integration must take place. This in fact has occured at AWAC three times: with the purchases of Mississippi Valley, Aspen Airways, and Air Max. Although the stories go that many AWAC originals feel the integrations favored the bought party too much. Furthermore, I'm not sure if Air Max was ALPA.

I don't think it's too late for SKW to organize ALPA, and to a have a fair integration of the ASA and SKW pilot groups. That is up to the SKW pilots and management of course.

Have sympathy and respect for your fellow ASA pros: organize and integrate! You'll get proper respect from the rest of us and from your union adverse managemt.

 

[Crossky]

I didn't know that AWAC pilots had made concessions, I thought they lost UAL flying because they wouldn't, so I stand corrected there.

Yea, many didn't know that us AWAC pilots voted for a United BK concession equivalent to a 15% cut for the CRJ pilots and more for the Bae-146 pilots. The company didn't do a good PR job in representing our sacrifices to United and the UAX carriers, and didn't pass on the savings to United. When we rebid the United flying a year after our concession went into effect, our MEC said absolutely no to considering another concession.

I mean no offense to SKW pilots, but consider that your Pilot to Pilot and management-management relations with ASA would be better if you were represented by ALPA. ALPA by-laws require that if one ALPA carrier purchases another and the pilot groups are integrated, a fair and equitable integration must take place. This in fact has occured at AWAC three times: with the purchases of Mississippi Valley, Aspen Airways, and Air Max. Although the stories go that many AWAC originals feel the integrations favored the bought party too much. Furthermore, I'm not sure if Air Max was ALPA.

I don't think it's too late for SKW to organize ALPA, and to a have a fair integration of the ASA and SKW pilot groups. That is up to the SKW pilots and management of course.

Have sympathy and respect for your fellow ASA pros: organize and integrate! You'll get proper respect from the rest of us and from your union adverse managemt.

 

[goodpilotithink]

Your mgt. team works under a contract. Jerry on down. What makes you feel you, as a professional, should not have a contract?

 

[FlyingToIST]

As a new guy at SkyW I was at the Candlewood the other day. Interestingly enough those guys/gals talking about how great ALPA is had to change the subject when i asked them how ALPA helped Mesaba pilots with company declaring Ch.11 even though Mesaba was profitable.
I might be a new hire but i come with 10 years of academical and industrial work experience in airline environment; both international and domestic. I am also not a kid who is attracted to a shiny jet syndrome.
I think the collective bargaining agreements have lost their value that they had in the past. They are not as effective as clear channel of communications and great employee/employer relationships.
Those who use United/Delta argument against ALPA are not correct, because ALPA didn't write the rules of Ch.11 bankrupcy. If the pilots in those airlines didn't vote in the consessions, the airline had all the tools necessary to call the shots, it's not ALPA's fault, but it's the fault of the "system" that we live in.
Those who use Southwest as a pro-ALPA argument are not 100% correct either because Southwest was built on great employee/employer relationships. The union didn't take part on something that they already had.
Even though I agree with the sentiments of the original poster, I don't think this is the argument of PFT/non-PFT or training contract vs. non-training contract either.

If JA wants to sell the company to JO tomorrow, i have no control over that. It may happen tomorrow, it may never happen at all.I believe this airline treats their employees, customers, vendors much better than the JO's little project.

This is just a simple way of looking at the things. In my eyes I really want the vote in the company property; but my vote would be against the ALPA or any other union representation.


Happy flying anyone..

Corrected for miswording on the Mesaba thing..

 

[atrdriver]

As a new guy at SkyW I was at the Candlewood the other day. Interestingly enough those guys/gals talking about how great ALPA is had to change the subject when i asked them how ALPA helped Mesaba declare Ch.11 even though Mesaba was profitable.

ALPA didn't have anything to do with Mesaba declaring Ch 11. But ALPA did stop the company from stuffing paycuts down the pilots throat without their consent. If you want to blame a companies demise on someone, blame it on mis management, as a union has nothing to so with it.

 

[atrdriver]

I'll give you two examples. Delta's contract about 10 years ago prohibited reflowing of crews in their own domicile. United Shuttle crews had provisions limiting and/or prohibiting airplane swaps on the last day of their trip. How is that for flexibility? We have people now running around thinking that as soon as ALPA is on the property that airplane swaps will magically go away. If that isn't a perfect example of shortsightedness and "what can ALPA do for me", then I don't know what is.

Those are very rare cases. Most contracts do not limit flexibility, they simply attempt to protect the QOL of the pilots. Sometimes that is done by making the company pay more for doing certain thing, like rigs. That doesn't limit flexibility, it simply makes the company have to think a little farther into the future, which helps not only the employees, but also the company itself.

 

[embdrvr]

Interestingly enough those guys/gals talking about how great ALPA is had to change the subject when i asked them how ALPA helped Mesaba declare Ch.11 even though Mesaba was profitable.

I'm confused. How did ALPA "help" Mesaba declare bankruptcy? Did ALPA disrupt Mesaba's revenue stream or might that have been NWA? Please spell it out for us slow guys.

 

[pilotbrain]

CFIT, Does it worry you as well what might happen at SkyWest if there is a shakeup in management down the road that results in some Frank Lorenzo type getting control of SkyWest? I quess that worries me more than the scenario you posted. Without a contract someone like that could make our lives hell in a heartbeat. Good original post and thread.

If we do vote in ALPA....what would this do to the two pilot seniority lists???Asking because I have no idea.