SkyWest back to Coex

[MJG]

Enough is enough. Let them be. To my fellow XJET aviators, they made their bed now let them sleep in it. For those furloughed XJET pilots that went to CommutAir and did whatever, who cares. They also made their own bed so let them sleep in it. We have more important things to worry about right now other than to trade insults back and forth with CA pilots. Like John Lennon says, "Let it be, let it be"

 

[Air Biscuit]

The reason that Coex is taking mainline flying is because the Cal scabs didn't have the foresight to see what this "rj" infestation would turn into. Nor do most of them care. I got mine so srew the rest of you mentality. It isn't our fault. They let it happen. We wanted one list, but have no leverage due to a Cal run MEC. I can assure you Sky Worst and Commodeair will not be taking anymore of our flying away after this contract. Good Luck to all of you non union Jack off's.

 

[socalpilot]

You Commutair guys and gals are just one small step above SCABS in my book. Actually, there are a few dictionary's out there that would say you ARE scabs. By taking our flying, you are doing Union work, for non Union wages and benefits.

You still don't understand. Nobody is taking your flying. Your company was given first chance to bring back the props but they declined. We are just flying what our company tells us to fly. We don't want to fight with the express guys but you are trying to force ALPA on a group of pilots that doesn't feel convinced ALPA is the best choice. Since we don't share your views on ALPA now we are going to have a jumpseat war. That just doesn't make any sense. If it wasn't us then it would have been someone else. Please think long and hard about who is responsible and put the blame where it belongs. Our wages and benefits are one of the highest for our size of airplane. Don't think for one minute that ALPA would have improved our pay or benefits for 19 seat aircraft.

 

[George Jetson]

Re: Screw it...

Flame away, but NO Commutair person is getting my jumpseat unless you present a valid ALPA card. Period. If you have an ALPA card, then this post does not apply to you.

Sorry for you Express commuters this might affect. Thats the way it's going to be on my plane.

I'm embarrassed to say that you and I both are part of the same pilot group. The jumpseat should NEVER become a weapon of war. That is just plain ignorant, immature, and outright stupid. Let's just move on. They've made their decision. Hopefully we'll be more successful next time around. I don't like the fact that some of our own furloughees "spit back in our face" but there is nothing we can do about it right now. Let's focus on our contract and our situation.

GJ

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Thank you your royal majesty for the precious water and meals. The only reason you brought us water and meals was because you wanted us to become ALPA. Never once did you consider that ALPA might not be the right choice for CommutAir. Just because express is ALPA doesn't mean that CommutAir needs to be. I'm still waiting for someone to post some valid reasons why we should have voted in ALPA. The only reason XJET wants CommutAir to be ALPA is for their own selfish reasons and it will never happen when you try to use bullying and coercion to get it.

Well I don't think that every Commutair pilot should be looked on harshly, however you sir represent the ignorant and misinformed. No union is perfect and ALPA is far from it, but with that said to answer your question, here is what ALPA would provide you....

-much better integration into the seniority list if you were bought out by an ALPA carrier (e.g. God forbid Mesa Airlines).
-best possible legal representation should you God forbid have and incident/accident
-best possible aviation medical advice should you God forbid have a medical issue
-best airline pilot recources to improve safety at your operations
-an opportunity to negotiate down the road for better quality of life/pay with the best pilot negotiation assistance (forms a nice base to begin from)
-finally not having to defend yourself against 2000+ angry colleagues

 

[George Jetson]

Perhaps we did a poor job of explaining the benefits of ALPA. Frankly, I think you guys made a big mistake. The benefits of having a solid contract are immeasurable. Having a Safety/Accident Investigation team is also a huge benefit. Having union attorneys who specialize in all sorts of issues is unquantifiable...especially when it is your butt doing the rug dance in the chief pilot's office. Would ALPA have doubled your pay rates? Nope. But they would have helped you secure a solid working agreement that the company cannot change unilaterally.

GJ

 

[Mr Hat]

The reason we wanted to get Commutair to vote ALPA in was to make sure that all the airlines flying the Continental brand were in fact union pilots. We are very concerned about non-union pilots being forced to scab if we or CAL were to go on strike. Not only that we would have more leverage to help eachother in times of need (by eachother I mean CAL, XJet, Skywest, Commutair). The scabbing issue is probably the largest reason why XJet pilots are so concerned about non-union carriers in our system. The other issue is that yes, you guys were given flying that we used to do, CLE-CVG is one that comes to mind, you are correct....they used to be done by the BE1900 at Express until we got rid of them and yes, XJet turned down the prop flying so what are ya gonna do. We are nervous that Commutair will get jets and/or Skywest will be allowed to use thier jets creating the ability to pit one pilot group against another in order to ratchet down wages. Thats bad for all of us. But because the other two airlines are non-union, it makes it much much worse. Their management can change their wage at will in order to put XJet down. I do not want anyone to play fare wars with my pay or my life nor do I want to see it happen to the pilots of Commutair or Skywest. So next time ALPA comes around, I urge you guys to reconcider for the greater good of all the pilots involved in this potential mess. I'll go one step further and say that if any other group out there starts flying Jets for CAL, we need to push for integration of the seniority lists involved......We've been saying that about Pinnicle as well. This industry has gotten out of control with all the outsourcing, undercutting, shifting of flying and blurring the lines....we need to stop it before people have to get second jobs just to maintain their status as an airline pilot.

 

[AVI8V1]

Well spoken Mr. Hat... I am in total agreement. Seems like common sense to me but that sense isn't so common anymore.
To alll you Xjet bashers- we do not whine for ourselves... we are concerned for the greater good of our profession as a whole- we're getting ready to rock and roll.

 

[NEDude]

Yeah, but when us "kids" revolutionize the way "regional" pilots are paid, what will you have to say?

I wouldn't get too hyped up over your new contract just yet. Remember that in just a few short years your exclusive RJ contract with Continental will expire. What will happen when CAL says to XJT management "do it cheaper or we'll take our planes and give them to someone else"? Mark my words, if you do get an industry leading contract, it will be short lived.

I can assure you Sky Worst and Commodeair will not be taking anymore of our flying away after this contract.

It is not your flying to scope. You guys are negotiationg a contract with ExpressJet management, not Continental. Continental owns a 31% stake in ExpressJet, and holds three of the eight slots on the ExpressJet board of directors. You'd be hard pressed to convince anyone on the national mediation board that you negotiated a contract with Continental management. Do you know that members of your own ExpressJet ALPA leadership has gone on record as saying that CALALPA had no problem letting us into the hubs, that you had to go back CALALPA three times in order to get the current MOU - three times more than CALALPA wanted, and that you exausted their support on the issue? If you don't want us in the hubs, it will have to be the mainline pilots who scope us out with Continental on your behalf. If the Continental pilots gave you virtually no support on this issue before, what makes you think they will go further out on a limb for you next time? Hate to be the voice of reality for you, but you are not a wholly owned carrier anymore, and thus have no right to claim the flying is yours. It belongs to Continental, not Expressjet.

The reason that Coex is taking mainline flying is because the Cal scabs didn't have the foresight to see what this "rj" infestation would turn into. Nor do most of them care. I got mine so srew the rest of you mentality. It isn't our fault. They let it happen.

So if it isn't your fault, then it is okay for you to take their flying? If it's okay for you, then why isn't it okay for us? Or do you just have the same "I got mine so screw the rest of you" mindset?

You Commutair guys and gals are just one small step above SCABS in my book. Actually, there are a few dictionary's out there that would say you ARE scabs. By taking our flying, you are doing Union work, for non Union wages and benefits. Thanks for doing your part to ensure the race to the bottom continues.

So by being Scabs, we should be welcomed with open arms. After all doesn't CALALPA do that?

Given that the majority of COEX pilots PFT'd, you are hardly a pilot group to lecture others about setting a higher standard. Thank you guys for your part in continuing the race to the bottom. But I guess that doesn't matter now because you got yours, so screw the rest of us. I am noticing a trend among the ExpressJet pilot group.

 

[AVI1900D]

I have heard some distrubing rumors from the Skywest camp. Some of the pilots there feel that ExpressJet got there jobs there and not CALALPA. That is a notion that could be very dangerous for our future. ExpressJet has not given this pilot group a thing, that was not fought for by CALALPA.

Thats the exact same BS they told us at Commutair and we believed it. Ofcourse until we left PLB and found out they where intructed to do so by Ford and Harisson and it was a lie.

So next time ALPA comes around, I urge you guys to reconcider for the greater good of all the pilots involved in this potential mess.

They are currently forming a mutual interest Committe run by the anti alpa group. They want to do this as fast as possible to get an agreement to stop the vote from happening again. And guess who will oversee this process, yes Ford &Harrison. This is staight from the union busting playbook.

 

[Obi-Wan]

We are nervous that Commutair will get jets

From what I hear they do not have the resources to do so. I also hear that they are being sued by a group of their pilots for sealing their retirement money. if this settlement is large enough it might bankrupt the company or the pilots might own the company. Maybe then they can make the right choice.

 

[nimtz]

Re: Screw it...

Flame away, but NO Commutair person is getting my jumpseat unless you present a valid ALPA card. Period. If you have an ALPA card, then this post does not apply to you.

Sorry for you Express commuters this might affect. Thats the way it's going to be on my plane.

You Commutair guys and gals are just one small step above SCABS in my book. Actually, there are a few dictionary's out there that would say you ARE scabs. By taking our flying, you are doing Union work, for non Union wages and benefits. Thanks for doing your part to ensure the race to the bottom continues.

Yup... I'm an express crybaby. can I have another cup of waughhh?!

Dude, what stupid flamebait are you trying to throw out? Since your actual name appears on the crackpipe, you have to come here to spew anonomyous garbage. You need to take out your professional/sexual frustrations out on things besides the jumpseat.

You want to lecture a Commutair guy why there pilot group acted like a bunch of fr*cking morons for rejecting representation, go right ahead cause I'd be right beside you. But let the guy get to where he wants to go for crying out loud. 'Thats the way it's gotta be on my plane.' Grow up please, for the benefit of our entire pilot group.

 

[nimtz]

For a group of professional airline pilots you xjet guys sure do cry like a bunch of beotches. You guys whine so loud I swear I can hear you over the jet engine when you taxi past. I guess that's what happens when you hire kids to be airline pilots.

Yeah and Commutair wasn't hiring 900 hour wonders back in 2000 either, huh? They were all 30+ with numerous types and tons of turbine PIC, right? The majority of your pilot group sure showed overwhelming 'professionalism' when they decided they were best off putting all faith in management hands. You might think all this CLE growth is fabulous, but here's a reality check for you, CLE won't last five more years as a CAL hub. That will make it pretty pointless for Commutair to fly from MBS-CLE.

 

[Air Biscuit]

NEDude,

You are right our capacity purchase agreement with CAL expires in 07, but guess what, we have leverage on this contract to destroy Cal if it comes down to it if we have to close the doors. Their is strength in numbers. Don't you think that we may be able to persuade Cal to give us some kind of assurance in writing that no other vendor's will get any further flying in the future.

You also stated, "if it isn't your fault, then why is it o.k. for you to take their flying and not o.k. for us to take yours." "Or do you have the same mindset of I got mine so srew the rest of you?" Let me start by saying Cal had the chance back in contract 97 to secure one list and they let it slip away. That is why it really is their own fault. They run the MEC we don't. They hurt us all by letting things slip away from them. They had the leverage then we did not. We should have in my opinion voted down ta2 in contract 97 to eliminate the cost advantage for management to spin us us off and keep us separate. I was one of the 125 some odd pilots that did vote no on it. Alot of the mentality then was to take our retro checks and go to Cal because the economy was booming and things were moving fast. Look what happened, we're all still here at X-jet plus a few hundred more off the street flow backs flying a jet airliner for peanuts. I'm sure their are alot of pilots now that wish they could change back their vote. Their aren't to many guys who are willing to admit to voting yes on that POS. I didn't believe in leaving the guys behind me to work with Z-scale wages. So to answer your question no I do not have that mindset.

You also said that by being scabs that we should be welcome with open arms. After all doesn't CALALPA do that. This you have somewhat of a point on unfortanately. ALPA is a business like everything else and it seems sometimes like the lessor of two evils. They did forgive the scabs. Was it right. In my opinion no. Their actions destroyed many lives, however if being ALPA down the road helps the rest of us non scab scum at X-jet and Cal which it will then it will be worth it. First of all you guys are not scabs yet. But you should have voted in our union. I am not sure of the education from ALPA you received prior to the vote, but evidently it didn't do much convincing which is too bad. I think that the majority of you will eventually regret the decision.

 

[NEDude]

Don't you think that we may be able to persuade Cal to give us some kind of assurance in writing that no other vendor's will get any further flying in the future.

Ummm, no. You have some leverage right now. That leverage ends in a few years. If you do go so far as to get some assurance from CAL right now, in 2007 it means nothing. There will be several airlines lining up to take that flying. If the aircraft are available, and since CAL owns/leases all of your planes, they will be, it will not take too long for another carrier to pick it up. CAL management is not stupid, do you honestly believe that they would enter into an agreement that would tie their hands the way you seem to think you can? Again. any agreement you make will be with ExpressJet, not Continental. And you can bet the minute that the relationship between Continental and Expressjet does not benefit Continental, it will end. Also remember that the negotiating process is a give and take type of relationship. All we hear about is what you are going to take, what are you willing to give?

Let me start by saying Cal had the chance back in contract 97 to secure one list and they let it slip away. That is why it really is their own fault.

You also had the chance to scope other carriers out, and you didn't. So it is your fault that we were allowed here. So by the same reasoning, it is okay for us to be here.

But you should have voted in our union.

Wow, talk about an arrogant statement. Why should we have voted in your union? This is our company, not yours. This is our relationship with our management, not yours. This affects our lives, not yours. If the majority of our pilots felt like management was not treating us fairly, believe me it would have been voted in. Also it must be noted for the record that there are at least 60 pilots currently at Commutair who were not eligible to vote. That is about 30% of our current seniority list. Also note that the vote was very close, it lost by less than 15 votes. Commutair is not very far from going union IMHO. This was by far the most organized and prolific push for a union here and it barely lost. Give it a little time and you could very well see ALPA on property.