SkyWest back to Coex

[MJG]

I thought this thread was something about "Skywest back to COEX", what the heck happened to that. End the bashing, this is embarassing for everyone. Management folks everywhere must surely be laughing their arses off by now.

 

[BeechSlapped]

They are currently forming a mutual interest Committe run by the anti alpa group. They want to do this as fast as possible to get an agreement to stop the vote from happening again. And guess who will oversee this process, yes Ford &Harrison. This is staight from the union busting playbook

Not one sentence of this is true. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

 

[Torey15]

Holy cr@p, people get hot in a hurry under any COEX thread dealing with Commutair/SkyWest! Seriously guys, for those of you who might know, how many furloughees are expected to return to COEX once recalled that are currently flying for one of the two above mentioned companies? Any ballpark estimates or predictions? I believe around 50-60 made it onto the property at SkyWest Any takers???

 

[socalpilot]

The scabbing issue is probably the largest reason why XJet pilots are so concerned about non-union carriers in our system. The other issue is that yes, you guys were given flying that we used to do, CLE-CVG is one that comes to mind, you are correct....they used to be done by the BE1900 at Express until we got rid of them and yes, XJet turned down the prop flying so what are ya gonna do.

Mr Hat, that was a good response and I believe I speak for the rest of the CommutAir pilots when I say that we don't want to cause any problems for the employees of Xjet. The people here at CommutAir are not the type to fly struck work and I seriously doubt the current management would ask us to do that. If the issue of flying struck work was to come up there would be so many people calling in sick or grounding airplanes that the effort would be a complete waste of time. The managment here at CommutAir is pretty good with a few problems that probably are present at most any airlines (scheduling). For the most part it's descent. As my fellow pilot said in a previous post regarding the ALPA vote "If the majority of our pilots felt like management was not treating us fairly, believe me it would have been voted in."

As far as us getting CLE - CVG. I know that used to be express but I don't belive that market could support a jet on such a short stage length. You may have lost that city but you picked up a few others including some city in FL that used to be mainline before 9/11. Most pilots don't think about the business side of operating an airline. They just see that they lost a city and say this is B.S. Do you think it makes sense to fly a jet and lose money or have someone else do it and make a profit? The answer to the problem is to have Xjet do the turboprop flying. However, your company doesn't agree.

Well I don't think that every Commutair pilot should be looked on harshly, however you sir represent the ignorant and misinformed.

That's a pretty strong statement from someone who knows nothing about my background. I feel I'm very informed on the issues at MY company and it is apparent you know nothing about CommutAir. Ask the people who work here about lifestyle and benefits and then compare it to those of other airlines. You might be surprised. The pay could be better but it can't be justified when were flying 19 seat airplanes. Bigger planes / bigger revenue / better pay.

I'm very pleased with some of the good responses from the Xjet pilots. I think we should continue this discussion on another thread. Sorry to the original thread starter for the hijack.

 

[mckpickle]

This is for NEDUDE.

You know you have been on here for years bashing Express. Get turned down hu? sorry to hear that. But you are a downright jackhole.

Your statement about PFT is just stupid. When I got hired at express CA was PFT. Many of my friends went to CA and paid dearly. You know the funny thing though. No one is still there. They all left because of what a joke the place was. They couldn't stand the shceduals and doing 121 legs a day, and having management change the rules whenever they wanted. I'm at Express flying "decent" equipment getting paid "liveable" wages(not what I'm worth by any means but I don't wat ramen). And getting a nice amount of time off.

As far as your statement "Its not your flying", Man If I ever meet you I swear to christ my irish temper might get the best of me. Listen up A$$WIPE. We were hired to Express, A DIVISION OF CAL. We were told we would all be CAL employees. We were told to tell people we work for CAL. We have busted our buts DAY in and DAY out to make CAL one of the best. We now carry over 12 million of CALs pax a year and generate over 1 BILLION IN FUKCING REVENUE. Then CAL sells us to finance its own solventcy. Are we pi$$ED you better believe it. So we don't need a snot nose little fukc like you saying "well it's not your flying" They'll get OUR flying when they pry it from our cold deah fukcing hands. GO FUKC YOURSELF and walk the other way if you ever meet me.


Man how you got hired at CA and not MESA is beyond me.

 

[Company Man]

McPickle,


Have a Guiness and STFU. You either are constipated, or are not getting enough at home. Judging by your hostilitity and total UNPROFESSIONALISM, its probably a little of both. But what can you expect from someone who writes his name in the snow. Thankfully the majority of the Express Jet pilot group is NOT (sorry for the typo, hopefully noone took offence) like you. To those that are above name calling and threatening, Thank you. And to McPickle grow up. If you really feel this strongly about this, stop by the CommutAir crew hall in CLE or by A1 in ALB and we can discuss matters further. But I honestly feel that you'll hide behind a screen name and just throw insults our way.


Edited for typos

 

[mckpickle]

Well buddy If you know I write my name in the snow than you know who I am, as does just about everyone on here. So there is no hiding .

So what are you upset about. That I yelled at NEDUDE? That I used Potty words? Oh gawd and baby jesus, I'm goin to hell. BFD.

My point was that guy has never had anything good to say about our group unless he was asking us to help him get a crew room. Tell me was anything I said untrue? No it wasn't. As far as my "unprofessionalsism". Whatever man. Then feel free not to ride on my airplane I really couldn't give a sh1t about your opinion of my professionalism. I care what my Fo thinks and my PAX and thats about it. And so be it if I get pi$$ed off at NEDUDE. I bet ya theres a he11 of a lot more guys than me who feel the same way.

 

[nimtz]

Well buddy If you know I write my name in the snow than you know who I am, as does just about everyone on here. So there is no hiding .

So what are you upset about. That I yelled at NEDUDE? That I used Potty words? Oh gawd and baby jesus, I'm goin to hell. BFD.

My point was that guy has never had anything good to say about our group unless he was asking us to help him get a crew room. Tell me was anything I said untrue? No it wasn't. As far as my "unprofessionalsism". Whatever man. Then feel free not to ride on my airplane I really couldn't give a sh1t about your opinion of my professionalism. I care what my Fo thinks and my PAX and thats about it. And so be it if I get pi$$ed off at NEDUDE. I bet ya theres a he11 of a lot more guys than me who feel the same way.

Come on dude, chill out a little there. NEDude likes to get a reaction out of you, but the reality is that he doesn't like our pilot group for whatever reason. Maybe one of our guys was a d*ck to him on a jumpseat or whatever, but the fact is he likes to stir the pot. Don't give him the pleasure.

After all, he's the same genius that firmly belives any potential strike by us will be stopped by Bush cause we have a hub at IAH ie 'George Bush Intercontinental.' I'm sure he will tell you about how he read 'Hard Landings' so that makes him an expert on how the airline industry works. Anyways, alot of us Xjet guys on here need to start working on putting up for our contract rather then just talking about it. Find let's go show them how it's done...


BTW, orginal post. Don't plan on XJet recalls having any effect on hiring at Skywest/Commutair. I'd bet top buck the furloughed XJet people defer till the last bitter moment or not come back at all...

 

[NEDude]

After all, he's the same genius that firmly belives any potential strike by us will be stopped by Bush cause we have a hub at IAH ie 'George Bush Intercontinental.' I'm sure he will tell you about how he read 'Hard Landings' so that makes him an expert on how the airline industry works. Anyways, alot of us Xjet guys on here need to start working on putting up for our contract rather then just talking about it. Find let's go show them how it's done...

You had better go back and re-read what I wrote. You see small minds take one sentence out of context and use that to make their point. At no point did I say that George Bush would stop a strike because the Houston hub is at George Bush Intercontinental. It is comments like this that make me lose all respect for people such as yourself.

I have no problems with the ExpressJet pilot group. I have lots of problems with some members of the ExpressJet pilot group who blame all of their own internal problems on CommutAir not voting in ALPA.

Continental selling off ExpressJet has nothing to do with CommutAir not voting in ALPA. ExpressJet refusing the offer from Continental for turboprop flying has nothing to do with CommutAir not voting in ALPA. ExpressJet pilots being furloughed due to the flow-through agreement with Continental has nothing to do with CommutAir not voting in ALPA.

As far as your statement "Its not your flying", Man If I ever meet you I swear to christ my irish temper might get the best of me. Listen up A$$WIPE. We were hired to Express, A DIVISION OF CAL. We were told we would all be CAL employees. We were told to tell people we work for CAL. We have busted our buts DAY in and DAY out to make CAL one of the best. We now carry over 12 million of CALs pax a year and generate over 1 BILLION IN FUKCING REVENUE. Then CAL sells us to finance its own solventcy. Are we pi$$ED you better believe it. So we don't need a snot nose little fukc like you saying "well it's not your flying" They'll get OUR flying when they pry it from our cold deah fukcing hands. GO FUKC YOURSELF and walk the other way if you ever meet me.

McPickle, chill out dude. Your anger is totally misdirected. None of what makes you so angry has anything to do with CommutAir not voting in ALPA. Direct your anger where it belongs, to your relationship with ExpressJet management, and Continental. ExpressJet was spun off, pilots were furloughed, and your management turned down the turboprop flying long before CommutAir came to Cleveland and the pilot group voted down ALPA. If it makes you angry, I am sorry. But please direct your anger where it belongs.

All I have done is offer a counterpoint to statements that others have made. Statements such as CAL failing to scope out the RJ flying making it okay to take mainline flying is just plain stupid. Then to imply that it is okay for you to do one thing, but not okay for others to do the same thing is just plain hypocritical. I'm sorry if pointing that out makes you angry as well. But that is your own problem, not mine.

Come on dude, chill out a little there. NEDude likes to get a reaction out of you, but the reality is that he doesn't like our pilot group for whatever reason. Maybe one of our guys was a d*ck to him on a jumpseat or whatever, but the fact is he likes to stir the pot. Don't give him the pleasure.

Come on Nimitz, get real. I am the only one here trying to stir the pot? Either learn how to read, or learn how to be objective. Calling CommutAir pilots SCABS isn't stiring the pot? If you are going to accuse me of something, the accuse everyone else here of the same thing, because we are all guilty of it. Or is this another case of ExpressJet pilots thinking their $hit doesn't stink?

 

[Air Biscuit]

Hey NEDude,


Get a clue man. What do you know about the negotiating process. Oh yeah I forgot zero. You don't have a union. "It's a give and take process." Yeah right. Maybe when you have something to give. Sit back and watch because X-jet won't be giving up a d@mn thing that we have right now. We will significantly raise the bar in all areas and you will not ever fly a jet with a globe on it. Keep dreaming. It is our flying and you sir continue to compare apples to oranges. Go back and re-read Mckpickles post and get an education.

 

[nimtz]

You had better go back and re-read what I wrote. You see small minds take one sentence out of context and use that to make their point. At no point did I say that George Bush would stop a strike because the Houston hub is at George Bush Intercontinental. It is comments like this that make me lose all respect for people such as yourself.

You have claimed numerous times that Xjet has no chance of having a successful strike do to the White House. Drawing this simple conclusion based on having a Republican named Bush in the White House is quite simply stupidity. Clinton stopped or quickly put a stop to two AMR strikes, cause AMR is huge and vital to national infrastructure both national and international. If Bush tries to do that with us then I think my claim of needing a 50% raise is pretty justified. After all I'm vital to national infrastructure. Bush didn't even sniff when Comair went out and I doubt we will ganer much reaction beyond him asking all parties to be reasonable.

Come on Nimitz, get real. I am the only one here trying to stir the pot? Either learn how to read, or learn how to be objective. Calling CommutAir pilots SCABS isn't stiring the pot? If you are going to accuse me of something, the accuse everyone else here of the same thing, because we are all guilty of it. Or is this another case of ExpressJet pilots thinking their $hit doesn't stink?

Agreed to an extent. See my previous post scolding one of our sh*theads who vows to close the js to you guys. Anybody who calls you a scab has personal problems he doesn't want to admit to. Stirring the pot is only benefical to our respective management teams and at this rate we are turing this into a Comair vs Delta thread. I have no respect for those who make stupid claims like 'you pft' or 'you're a scab.' Nobody's done struck work, so nobody's a scab. What happens in the future for your group without reprensentation, well that remains to be seen.

My problem is with you constantly butting your nose into our issues like your opinon counts. I don't need some guy who doesn't even understand the issue saying things like 'you voted for the Flowthrough so you cannot be upset by it.' You don't work here and do not understand the dynamics of our group so mind you're on business. Outside of Commutair's potential to whipsaw Xjet, I wish your group all the growth and success you deserve, because you're just like me, underpaid and overworked...

 

[NEDude]

We will significantly raise the bar in all areas and you will not ever fly a jet with a globe on it.

Considering that isn't my goal, I am not too worried.

It is our flying

If it is, then how come you needed the mainline pilots support to get the prop MOU. Support that by your own ALPA leadership claimed was at first non-existent, and at best exausted very quickly.

Why don't you go tell all the mainline pilots that it is your flying, I'm sure they'd be interested in what you have to say. To claim it is okay to take mainline flying because they failed to scope you out is no difference than us being able to take "your" flying because you failed to scope us out. To claim we are lowering the bar in the industry when you work with a pilot group that was one of the leading group of PFT's is just plain hypocritcal. The only apples and oranges difference is that you did what you had to get ahead a few years ago, and others are doing it now. A classic case of "I got mine so screw the rest of you".

You have claimed numerous times that Xjet has no chance of having a successful strike do to the White House. Drawing this simple conclusion based on having a Republican named Bush in the White House is quite simply stupidity.

You are quite stupid if you think that is all I said. If you are going to argue with someone, at least figure out what they said first. Since you obviously can't remember, here is a refresher: "As long a Dubya is in office, Coex is not going on strike. Do you honestly think a Texas Republican who is very pro-management, is going to allow a Texas based airline - based at an airport named after his daddy - go on strike and cripple business in Texas? Especially not too long after the federal government has (in their minds) spend billions to try and help out the airline industry?"

To make it clearer for you, since you obviously can't figure it out the way it is written, the federal governement just spent billions of dollars bailing out the airline industry. The industry has been through the worst economic years in its history. George W. Bush is very pro-management/anti-labor. He is from Texas and was a former Governor of that state. As a result he has a lot of ties to business in Texas. The part about Coex being based at Bush Intercontinental airport is simpy the icing on the cake, not the substance (you obviously needed that pointed out).

The federal government has a vested interest on getting a return on its investment. ExpressJet going on strike threatens that return. Combine that with a pro-management/anti-labor president, his close ties to Texas business, and the powerful voice of public opinion, and your chances of getting to the point of striking are not that great. I sincerely hope that is clearer for you.

BTW, I only claimed that once, not numerous ocassions.

My problem is with you constantly butting your nose into our issues like your opinon counts. I don't need some guy who doesn't even understand the issue saying things like 'you voted for the Flowthrough so you cannot be upset by it.' You don't work here and do not understand the dynamics of our group so mind you're on business.

Then you guys mind your own. Since your memory is obviously not that great, let me remind you that this whole thing started when your guys butted into our business. Our vote on ALPA was our business only. What we do with it affects us. Our being ALPA does not prevent whipsaw (see Mesa-CCAir, Piedmont-Allegheney-PSA). Nor does it present a unified voice (again see above examples). Your talking about scoping out CommutAir is our business, since it affects us. Since you bring things up in a public forum, it becomes available for the public to comment on it. Sorry it angers you if people disagree with you. Take your ball and go home if you can't handle public comment on your public comments.

 

[mckpickle]

I agree. The vote by CA pilots was none of our biz. And I had no problem with CA pilots voting ALPA down. But the problem was that OUR pilots are what caused it to fail. That being said that was not the intent of my post.

The intent was to point out that you are missinformed. CA was for a long time PFT. So don't throw that in our faces. And after our new contract we wil have it in writing that PFT will no be allowed. Can you say the same. Or can CA institute PFT if thats what management wants to do? See?

Now as far as our flying issue. We were owned by CAL. One big company. We got many many gains in contract 97. Heck our pay under contract 95 was worse than yours! But we improved our contract to build upon it in 02. We know how scope works. We know that CAL should have better scope. Do you think we are idiots? If the growth is at Express rather than CAL we don't move up! DUH. So we know all these little issues, what we don't need is some moron at CA, pointing his finger saying, nananana is not your flying. You know what Fukc you buddy. We are the ones who built this company and expanded this place into what it is, so excuse me and my co-workers if we take a bit of pride and a lot of insult when it is TAKEN. Don't rub our noses in it.

You are looking at the last 2 years and taking it as gospel. We have a much longer history than the last 2 years events. Don't run around and tell us what we can and can't do, it's insulting.

And as far your idea of a strike, Emperor Bush and only delay a strike for 60 days. By next year all three labor groups will be in contract talks. Labor groups don't need a full out strike to do damage. The pen is mightier than the sword.

 

[nimtz]

You are quite stupid if you think that is all I said. If you are going to argue with someone, at least figure out what they said first. Since you obviously can't remember, here is a refresher: "As long a Dubya is in office, Coex is not going on strike. Do you honestly think a Texas Republican who is very pro-management, is going to allow a Texas based airline - based at an airport named after his daddy - go on strike and cripple business in Texas? Especially not too long after the federal government has (in their minds) spend billions to try and help out the airline industry?"

To make it clearer for you, since you obviously can't figure it out the way it is written, the federal governement just spent billions of dollars bailing out the airline industry. The industry has been through the worst economic years in its history. George W. Bush is very pro-management/anti-labor. He is from Texas and was a former Governor of that state. As a result he has a lot of ties to business in Texas. The part about Coex being based at Bush Intercontinental airport is simpy the icing on the cake, not the substance (you obviously needed that pointed out).

The federal government has a vested interest on getting a return on its investment. ExpressJet going on strike threatens that return. Combine that with a pro-management/anti-labor president, his close ties to Texas business, and the powerful voice of public opinion, and your chances of getting to the point of striking are not that great. I sincerely hope that is clearer for you.

BTW, I only claimed that once, not numerous ocassions.

Unbelievable, you're probably one of those guys who thinks that Bin Laden was secretly armed by the CIA. Go watch the X-Files some more. Sure GB wants the industry turned around, but we aren't talking about Continental Airlines getting grounded here. If anything the Republicans have historically always showed a willingness to be hands off when it comes to airline issues. Look how many mergers and strikes happened under Reagen.

Bush has got alot more on his plate to deal with then 200 grounded small jets at a time when traffic is still down from 2000. You go way overboard in your analysis, which shows a very clouded understanding of political games played between labor and management when it comes to captail hill. BTW, seems that Clinton was supposed to be pro labor, right? Just ask APA how great the pro-labor White House was for their ability to strike under Railway-Labor. Why did Clinton stop them? Easy, cause American's share of domestic and international traffic was gigantic and addtionally in Feburary '97 (think Winter Break) it would of been pretty d*mn much impossible to get to much of the Carib. or Latin America if Clinton would of let APA trounce the line.

It's the damage the strike will do, not simply the adminstrations ties, that causes strikes to stop under Railway-Labor. If you can't get that through your head now then you owe me a beer when you see me on the picket line.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

If it is, then how come you needed the mainline pilots support to get the prop MOU. Support that by your own ALPA leadership claimed was at first non-existent, and at best exausted very quickly.

Especially not too long after the federal government has (in their minds) spend billions to try and help out the airline industry?"

To make it clearer for you, since you obviously can't figure it out the way it is written, the federal governement just spent billions of dollars bailing out the airline industry.

I am very bad at breaking up quotations so please forgive/bear with me.

As far as your first quote I would like to say that it is mostly untrue. You might ask how I know that. It is because I am one of the CALALPA Reps that had to vote on it. We had support from the get go by the CAL Reps and NC. We (CAL and XJT Reps) sent the two NCs back to the table three times to get what we wanted. Myself as well as a couple of others were not satisfied with the third try. We wanted to get limits on numbers of hulls and fleet types. So, when it came up for a vote most of the CAL and XJT Reps voted for the third incarnation of the MOU. A couple of us voted against it hoping that we could get more. We were in the minority so the MOU passed. It was not because we "exausted" our support from the CAL pilots. They were satisfied as well as all but two of the XJT reps, myself included.

Now I have a question for you. How did you come by this mostly inaccurate information? We only discussed it once in our LEC meeting explaining why we voted no.


OK, the government "Bailed out" the industry. That is a funny one and I get a kick out of it every time I hear it. Do you realize that the Airlines paid back the government FIVE fold during the first year after 9/11? The pay back was in the form of increased taxes. This is one place where the airlines and ALPA are working together to try and reduce the rediculous over-taxation of the Airline Industry. Do you believe that 50% of a ticket going to taxes is a bit excesive?

Frats,