SkyWest back to Coex

[Bluto]

I wonder how many of the people in that meeting have been furloughed for nearly two years? Have you ever considered that, as CommutAir pilots, the furloughed XJT pilots honestly felt that CommutAir would be better off without ALPA? It's funny, I thought the ALPA vote was a secret ballot. Yet here you are publically denouncing those pilots for their views.

"In fact, at the last LEC meeting, the XJET pilots present at the meeting, voted to have the pilots (from Commute Air wanting to return to ALPA) stand in front of the membership, and plead their case on why we should let them back in."

What a mature, professional-sounding group. Why am I not surprised that so many furloughed pilots will choose not to return to such a class-act?

p.s. The pilots who will return from CommutAir to XJT don't have to "return to ALPA" they along with all the other furloughed pilots have been ALPA members all along.

 

[MECH]

Guys do not bash any furloughted pilots because they could be the very pilots that make or break a strike on our property. I would not want to create an us against them attitude.

I have heard some distrubing rumors from the Skywest camp. Some of the pilots there feel that ExpressJet got there jobs there and not CALALPA. That is a notion that could be very dangerous for our future. ExpressJet has not given this pilot group a thing, that was not fought for by CALALPA. We must stick together as a group or we will fail in our attempt to get an outstanding contract.

 

[MECH]

Bluto

Actually they are apprentice members and can still be denied membership to ALPA. I do not think that interviewing the returning pilots will accomplish a thing, other then divide this group.

There were ExpressJet pilots campaigning against ALPA at CommuteAir. This is a violation of the ALPA by-laws and Code of Ethics. It is also a sign that if you can not trust some one to support you. Do you think they will walk the picket line or walk across. Everything you do in life has a consequence. Maybe our furloughred pilots did not realize that. But when the time comes they better be walking beside me!!!!

 

[Bluto]

I would find it supremely ironic if a union who grants amnesty to vast hordes of proven SCABS would bar furloughed pilots who have never crossed a picket line (our former furloughed pilot rep included). Considering the excellent treatment furloughed XJT pilots have received at the hands of CALALPA, I would be very surprised if anything like this happened. I don't really have a dog in the CommutAir fight to begin with. However, I am deeply concerned when a group of pilots who have never been on furlough, or strike for that matter, rush to judge a group based on the actions of a few individuals. There are fewer than 50 XJT pilots flying at CommutAir. How many of them voted for ALPA? I don't know the numbers, but these idle threats of 'not-so-warm-welcomes' do nothing to promote unity in a pilot group in desperate need of it.

 

[Bluto]

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Sadly, this attitude of vengeance is a recurring theme with some members of the XJT pilot group. "Those flowbacks better not expect a warm reception." or "Those CommutAir pilots in CLE..." or "Those Skywest pilots in IAH..." Now it's your own furloughed pilots in danger of your unfriendly reception. Of course, I'm sure you treat everyone who picked up open time in the past two years with the same disdain, right? Just remember not to lump all furloughed pilots in with your view of the few bad apples at CommutAir. Many of us didn't use one penny of your medical assesment. And 90% of the furloughed pilots didn't even go to CommutAir, much less 'campaign against ALPA'.

 

[George Jetson]

In fact, at the last LEC meeting, the XJET pilots present at the meeting, voted to have the pilots (from Commute Air wanting to return to ALPA) stand in front of the membership, and plead their case on why we should let them back in. I don't know if that will still happen. It is up to the Chairman.

Which LEC meeting are you referring to? In fact, it is NOT up to the chairman. If a resolution "was" passed at the LEC level, it is up to the MEC to make a decision on that resolution at the next MEC meeting. Please enlighten us as to which LEC meeting this "vote" took place at. I call BS on that statement.

GJ

 

[CaptainCrunch]

For a group of professional airline pilots you xjet guys sure do cry like a bunch of beotches. You guys whine so loud I swear I can hear you over the jet engine when you taxi past. I guess that's what happens when you hire kids to be airline pilots.

 

[socalpilot]

As for the XJT furloughees at Commutair that campaigned against ALPA, you slapped us directly in the face, stabbed us in the back, and spit on us. The pilots of XJT gave of their own personal money through a monthly assessment to cover your health insurance, and our dues paid for the negotiations that secured you flying jobs while you were on the street. Don't be suprised if you're not warmly received when you wish to return to the pilot group you turned your back on.

I don't know of any furloghees at CommutAir who campaigned against ALPA. However, I do recall one time jumpseating on express and discussing the issues with the crew who told me that they didn't think we needed ALPA either. Better take a look in your own camp instead of blaming the furloughees for all you problems.

I'm still waiting for someone from express to tell us how ALPA could have helped CommutAir.

Bluto, were you able to get the Skywest slot? Wish you could have come to CommutAir. I think you would have enjoyed it.

 

[socalpilot]

But when they come into our hubs and then vote down our union, what kind of treatment do they expect?

They are not your hubs. I believe they belong to CAL. Aren't you guys going into mainline hubs and taking their flying. I guess your just treating us the way CAL treated you when you took away their flying. The main thing is this is a business. You guys do it cheaper than mainline so guess who gets the flying. Our 1900 costs less to operate and is better suited for some markets which makes more sense than flying an RJ at a loss.

Until they voted down ALPA, we had a very good relationship with the Commutair pilots. We would even take them bottles of water or meals from our planes.

Thank you your royal majesty for the precious water and meals. The only reason you brought us water and meals was because you wanted us to become ALPA. Never once did you consider that ALPA might not be the right choice for CommutAir. Just because express is ALPA doesn't mean that CommutAir needs to be. I'm still waiting for someone to post some valid reasons why we should have voted in ALPA. The only reason XJET wants CommutAir to be ALPA is for their own selfish reasons and it will never happen when you try to use bullying and coercion to get it.

Was just talking with a Skywest pilot in IAH today. Nice guy. No animosity there. He's doing the flying his company hired him to do.

CommutAir pilots are also doing the flying our company hired us to do. We didn't all get together one day and say "hey lets go get as much of COEX's flying that we can". CAL came to CommutAir mangement and asked them to feed CLE and IAH. Our managment said we can do CLE but IAH is to much to take on right now. how does this differ from SkyWest taking the IAH flying. They don't have ALPA we don't have ALPA. So what's the difference?

 

[AviatorTx]

Screw it...

Flame away, but NO Commutair person is getting my jumpseat unless you present a valid ALPA card. Period. If you have an ALPA card, then this post does not apply to you.

Sorry for you Express commuters this might affect. Thats the way it's going to be on my plane.

You Commutair guys and gals are just one small step above SCABS in my book. Actually, there are a few dictionary's out there that would say you ARE scabs. By taking our flying, you are doing Union work, for non Union wages and benefits. Thanks for doing your part to ensure the race to the bottom continues.

Yup... I'm an express crybaby. can I have another cup of waughhh?!

 

[MJG]

Enough is enough. Let them be. To my fellow XJET aviators, they made their bed now let them sleep in it. For those furloughed XJET pilots that went to CommutAir and did whatever, who cares. They also made their own bed so let them sleep in it. We have more important things to worry about right now other than to trade insults back and forth with CA pilots. Like John Lennon says, "Let it be, let it be"

 

[Air Biscuit]

The reason that Coex is taking mainline flying is because the Cal scabs didn't have the foresight to see what this "rj" infestation would turn into. Nor do most of them care. I got mine so srew the rest of you mentality. It isn't our fault. They let it happen. We wanted one list, but have no leverage due to a Cal run MEC. I can assure you Sky Worst and Commodeair will not be taking anymore of our flying away after this contract. Good Luck to all of you non union Jack off's.

 

[socalpilot]

You Commutair guys and gals are just one small step above SCABS in my book. Actually, there are a few dictionary's out there that would say you ARE scabs. By taking our flying, you are doing Union work, for non Union wages and benefits.

You still don't understand. Nobody is taking your flying. Your company was given first chance to bring back the props but they declined. We are just flying what our company tells us to fly. We don't want to fight with the express guys but you are trying to force ALPA on a group of pilots that doesn't feel convinced ALPA is the best choice. Since we don't share your views on ALPA now we are going to have a jumpseat war. That just doesn't make any sense. If it wasn't us then it would have been someone else. Please think long and hard about who is responsible and put the blame where it belongs. Our wages and benefits are one of the highest for our size of airplane. Don't think for one minute that ALPA would have improved our pay or benefits for 19 seat aircraft.

 

[George Jetson]

Re: Screw it...

Flame away, but NO Commutair person is getting my jumpseat unless you present a valid ALPA card. Period. If you have an ALPA card, then this post does not apply to you.

Sorry for you Express commuters this might affect. Thats the way it's going to be on my plane.

I'm embarrassed to say that you and I both are part of the same pilot group. The jumpseat should NEVER become a weapon of war. That is just plain ignorant, immature, and outright stupid. Let's just move on. They've made their decision. Hopefully we'll be more successful next time around. I don't like the fact that some of our own furloughees "spit back in our face" but there is nothing we can do about it right now. Let's focus on our contract and our situation.

GJ

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Thank you your royal majesty for the precious water and meals. The only reason you brought us water and meals was because you wanted us to become ALPA. Never once did you consider that ALPA might not be the right choice for CommutAir. Just because express is ALPA doesn't mean that CommutAir needs to be. I'm still waiting for someone to post some valid reasons why we should have voted in ALPA. The only reason XJET wants CommutAir to be ALPA is for their own selfish reasons and it will never happen when you try to use bullying and coercion to get it.

Well I don't think that every Commutair pilot should be looked on harshly, however you sir represent the ignorant and misinformed. No union is perfect and ALPA is far from it, but with that said to answer your question, here is what ALPA would provide you....

-much better integration into the seniority list if you were bought out by an ALPA carrier (e.g. God forbid Mesa Airlines).
-best possible legal representation should you God forbid have and incident/accident
-best possible aviation medical advice should you God forbid have a medical issue
-best airline pilot recources to improve safety at your operations
-an opportunity to negotiate down the road for better quality of life/pay with the best pilot negotiation assistance (forms a nice base to begin from)
-finally not having to defend yourself against 2000+ angry colleagues

 

[George Jetson]

Perhaps we did a poor job of explaining the benefits of ALPA. Frankly, I think you guys made a big mistake. The benefits of having a solid contract are immeasurable. Having a Safety/Accident Investigation team is also a huge benefit. Having union attorneys who specialize in all sorts of issues is unquantifiable...especially when it is your butt doing the rug dance in the chief pilot's office. Would ALPA have doubled your pay rates? Nope. But they would have helped you secure a solid working agreement that the company cannot change unilaterally.

GJ

 

[Mr Hat]

The reason we wanted to get Commutair to vote ALPA in was to make sure that all the airlines flying the Continental brand were in fact union pilots. We are very concerned about non-union pilots being forced to scab if we or CAL were to go on strike. Not only that we would have more leverage to help eachother in times of need (by eachother I mean CAL, XJet, Skywest, Commutair). The scabbing issue is probably the largest reason why XJet pilots are so concerned about non-union carriers in our system. The other issue is that yes, you guys were given flying that we used to do, CLE-CVG is one that comes to mind, you are correct....they used to be done by the BE1900 at Express until we got rid of them and yes, XJet turned down the prop flying so what are ya gonna do. We are nervous that Commutair will get jets and/or Skywest will be allowed to use thier jets creating the ability to pit one pilot group against another in order to ratchet down wages. Thats bad for all of us. But because the other two airlines are non-union, it makes it much much worse. Their management can change their wage at will in order to put XJet down. I do not want anyone to play fare wars with my pay or my life nor do I want to see it happen to the pilots of Commutair or Skywest. So next time ALPA comes around, I urge you guys to reconcider for the greater good of all the pilots involved in this potential mess. I'll go one step further and say that if any other group out there starts flying Jets for CAL, we need to push for integration of the seniority lists involved......We've been saying that about Pinnicle as well. This industry has gotten out of control with all the outsourcing, undercutting, shifting of flying and blurring the lines....we need to stop it before people have to get second jobs just to maintain their status as an airline pilot.

 

[AVI8V1]

Well spoken Mr. Hat... I am in total agreement. Seems like common sense to me but that sense isn't so common anymore.
To alll you Xjet bashers- we do not whine for ourselves... we are concerned for the greater good of our profession as a whole- we're getting ready to rock and roll.

 

[NEDude]

Yeah, but when us "kids" revolutionize the way "regional" pilots are paid, what will you have to say?

I wouldn't get too hyped up over your new contract just yet. Remember that in just a few short years your exclusive RJ contract with Continental will expire. What will happen when CAL says to XJT management "do it cheaper or we'll take our planes and give them to someone else"? Mark my words, if you do get an industry leading contract, it will be short lived.

I can assure you Sky Worst and Commodeair will not be taking anymore of our flying away after this contract.

It is not your flying to scope. You guys are negotiationg a contract with ExpressJet management, not Continental. Continental owns a 31% stake in ExpressJet, and holds three of the eight slots on the ExpressJet board of directors. You'd be hard pressed to convince anyone on the national mediation board that you negotiated a contract with Continental management. Do you know that members of your own ExpressJet ALPA leadership has gone on record as saying that CALALPA had no problem letting us into the hubs, that you had to go back CALALPA three times in order to get the current MOU - three times more than CALALPA wanted, and that you exausted their support on the issue? If you don't want us in the hubs, it will have to be the mainline pilots who scope us out with Continental on your behalf. If the Continental pilots gave you virtually no support on this issue before, what makes you think they will go further out on a limb for you next time? Hate to be the voice of reality for you, but you are not a wholly owned carrier anymore, and thus have no right to claim the flying is yours. It belongs to Continental, not Expressjet.

The reason that Coex is taking mainline flying is because the Cal scabs didn't have the foresight to see what this "rj" infestation would turn into. Nor do most of them care. I got mine so srew the rest of you mentality. It isn't our fault. They let it happen.

So if it isn't your fault, then it is okay for you to take their flying? If it's okay for you, then why isn't it okay for us? Or do you just have the same "I got mine so screw the rest of you" mindset?

You Commutair guys and gals are just one small step above SCABS in my book. Actually, there are a few dictionary's out there that would say you ARE scabs. By taking our flying, you are doing Union work, for non Union wages and benefits. Thanks for doing your part to ensure the race to the bottom continues.

So by being Scabs, we should be welcomed with open arms. After all doesn't CALALPA do that?

Given that the majority of COEX pilots PFT'd, you are hardly a pilot group to lecture others about setting a higher standard. Thank you guys for your part in continuing the race to the bottom. But I guess that doesn't matter now because you got yours, so screw the rest of us. I am noticing a trend among the ExpressJet pilot group.

 

[AVI1900D]

I have heard some distrubing rumors from the Skywest camp. Some of the pilots there feel that ExpressJet got there jobs there and not CALALPA. That is a notion that could be very dangerous for our future. ExpressJet has not given this pilot group a thing, that was not fought for by CALALPA.

Thats the exact same BS they told us at Commutair and we believed it. Ofcourse until we left PLB and found out they where intructed to do so by Ford and Harisson and it was a lie.

So next time ALPA comes around, I urge you guys to reconcider for the greater good of all the pilots involved in this potential mess.

They are currently forming a mutual interest Committe run by the anti alpa group. They want to do this as fast as possible to get an agreement to stop the vote from happening again. And guess who will oversee this process, yes Ford &Harrison. This is staight from the union busting playbook.