Skywest - ASA Merger/Purchase

[strega7]

Ok, let's see if an ASA person will post a similar list so that we can compare apples to apples.

Skywest senority list# and DOH(ish) and Current position; remember it changes monthly!
0001 09/74 EC
0050 10/86 RC
0100 06/89 EC
0150 04/91 RC
0200 02/95 EC
0300 05/97 RC
0350 05/98 EC
0400 09/98 RC
0450 02/99 EC
0500 07/99 RC
0550 10/99 RC
0600 01/00 RC
0650 03/00 RC
0700 05/00 RC
0750 06/00 EC
0800 08/00 RC
0850 10/00 EC
0900 01/01 EC
0950 01/01 EC
1000 08/01 EC
1050 01/02 RF
1100 07/02 EC
1150 10/02 RC
1200 11/02 RF
1250 01/03 RF
1300 02/03 RF
1350 08/03 RF
1400 01/04 RF
1450 03/04 RF
1500 03/04 RF
1550 05/04 EF
1600 08/04 EF
1650 09/04 RF
1700 10/04 EF
1750 11/04 RF
1800 12/04 RF
1850 01/05 RF
1900 02/05 RF
1950 04/05 EF
2000 05/05 T
2050 06/05 T
2080 60/05 T

 

[joe_pilot]

Now I'm interested.

Come on, somebody from ASA post a similar, non-specific seniority list so we can compare. Do it before you're accused of NOT posting it because you know it would show DOH might NOT be fair.

 

[ohplease!]

It's easy to win when you play high school teams every week. Playing on the road's a joke, in front of what, 50,000 fans? Auburn was a mediocre team that year. Get real! My name is Jeb Cooter BTW.

A mediocre team with a SH1TY coach and no QB and SC could only win by 23....not very impressive. With SC's coach and QB at AU, it would have been a broken condom for sure.

War Eagle!

 

[Sedona16]

Ok, let's see if an ASA person will post a similar list so that we can compare apples to apples.

Skywest senority list# and DOH(ish) and Current position; remember it changes monthly!
0001 09/74 EC
0050 10/86 RC
0100 06/89 EC
0150 04/91 RC
0200 02/95 EC
0300 05/97 RC
0350 05/98 EC
0400 09/98 RC
0450 02/99 EC
0500 07/99 RC
0550 10/99 RC
0600 01/00 RC
0650 03/00 RC
0700 05/00 RC
0750 06/00 EC
0800 08/00 RC
0850 10/00 EC
0900 01/01 EC
0950 01/01 EC
1000 08/01 EC
1050 01/02 RF
1100 07/02 EC
1150 10/02 RC
1200 11/02 RF
1250 01/03 RF
1300 02/03 RF
1350 08/03 RF
1400 01/04 RF
1450 03/04 RF
1500 03/04 RF
1550 05/04 EF
1600 08/04 EF
1650 09/04 RF
1700 10/04 EF
1750 11/04 RF
1800 12/04 RF
1850 01/05 RF
1900 02/05 RF
1950 04/05 EF
2000 05/05 T
2050 06/05 T
2080 60/05 T

Not sure how accurate this is since I am top 300 and hired first quarter '98.

 

[strega7]

Sorry, messed up part of it. Here's the correction.

250 05/97 RC
300 03/98 RC
350 05/98 EC

 

[Texx]

>>SKYW...0150 04/91 RC<<


ASA... 183 04/91 RC.

So what's the problem?

 

[propjockey]

Where's the List?

Uh... yeah.... I don't think that comparing a couple numbers in the 100's is going to give us a very accurate picture of the ASA seniority list as a whole. Come on, someone. Please post matching seniority numbers with dates from ASA so we can all see why you're so gung ho about date-of-hire.

 

[ArcticFlier]

>>SKYW...0150 04/91 RC<<


ASA... 183 04/91 RC.

So what's the problem?

How does the rest of the list compare?

Good to know I won't get screwed.


AF 153 04/91 RC

 

[ArcticFlier]

Hello...................

Knock, knock.......................

Where's the list?

Hello? Anyone there? A little help.............



AF

 

[USCtrojan]

It's easy to win when you play high school teams every week. Playing on the road's a joke, in front of what, 50,000 fans? Auburn was a mediocre team that year. Get real! My name is Jeb Cooter BTW.

High School teams.....LMAO, yeah, you mean like the Citadel, Georgia Southern, to name a few. (I'll go ahead and look at the schedules, those are just the ones that come to mind.) Also, knowing what auburn suffered last year, why did they schedule Western Kentucky instead of Fresno State? And those are Division II teams there genius. auburn a mediocre team that year? It was the same team jeb, they had/have a new offensive coordinator. How many National Champions do your dawgs/tigers/gators or whoever have? How many Heismans? Try and comparing some real numbers there, before you start spouting. Don't mean to hijack, I hate when rednecks start screaming their bs...I sincerely hope 'SC meets and SEC team in the NC, 3 National Championships destroying the sec in the end will be, as Mastercard says, PRICELESS.

Cheers,

Trojan

 

[propjockey]

Just to keep everything on topic, someone please produce the list. Thank you.

 

[jehtplane]

Ok, let's see if an ASA person will post a similar list so that we can compare apples to apples.

Skywest senority list# and DOH(ish) and Current position; remember it changes monthly!
0001 09/74 EC
0050 10/86 RC
0100 06/89 EC
0150 04/91 RC
0200 02/95 EC
0300 05/97 RC
0350 05/98 EC
0400 09/98 RC
0450 02/99 EC
0500 07/99 RC
0550 10/99 RC
0600 01/00 RC
0650 03/00 RC
0700 05/00 RC
0750 06/00 EC
0800 08/00 RC
0850 10/00 EC
0900 01/01 EC
0950 01/01 EC
1000 08/01 EC
1050 01/02 RF
1100 07/02 EC
1150 10/02 RC
1200 11/02 RF
1250 01/03 RF
1300 02/03 RF
1350 08/03 RF
1400 01/04 RF
1450 03/04 RF
1500 03/04 RF
1550 05/04 EF
1600 08/04 EF
1650 09/04 RF
1700 10/04 EF
1750 11/04 RF
1800 12/04 RF
1850 01/05 RF
1900 02/05 RF
1950 04/05 EF
2000 05/05 T
2050 06/05 T
2080 60/05 T

How did you even come up with this. Our seniority list comes out twice a year. It is not that any one at ASA is trying to "hide our seniority" GROW UP.
I am in the higher 300, 350-390 hired in may of 1998which I beliveve is just aboutthe same as you guys. If we did more hiring between 1998-2001, so what, you have done more hiring since then so it would balance out..So again without out the "who is buying who" cause lets face it Skywest would only be doing it to stay in the Delta network, why is DOH not fair. Whenwe were talking about merging with Comair and really pushing that, all we talked about with them was DOH. It is fair it would work. And that was coming from the ASA and Comair people. Nobody has been sold to anybody.Get some sleep for all of you posting in the wee hours of the night. or get laid or something .

 

[MELIT]

!!!!

From what I hear SkyWest does not buy airlines they buy assets. So don't worry about DOH because the ASA folks will be NEW HIRES. Problem solved. Next!

 

[jehtplane]

From what I hear SkyWest does not buy airlines they buy assets. So don't worry about DOH because the ASA folks will be NEW HIRES. Problem solved. Next!

And you talk about the unprofessionals at ASA. Next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MELIT]

Facts are facts I can't help that. Next!

 

[propjockey]

Apples and Oranges and Red Herrings

How did you even come up with this. Our seniority list comes out twice a year. It is not that any one at ASA is trying to "hide our seniority" GROW UP.

It's very easy. The SkyWest internal website makes the seniority list available to us on a realtime basis. I guess we assumed you would have similar capability.

If we did more hiring between 1998-2001, so what, you have done more hiring since then so it would balance out.

Therein lies the problem! You answered your own question. You seem to think that seniority can be measured like weights on a scale. We are led to believe that SkyWest has done significantly more hiring in the last several years than ASA. If you did more hiring earlier, and we did more hiring later, logic dictates that more of your pilots are senior to more of our pilots. It doesn't all balance out.

If you were in the 300's at SkyWest, you would be considered bordering on very senior. I might say, with no offense intended, you seem to have a bit of "I've got mine so why should I care about those junior to me" attitude (some of our guys have it, too). Perhaps at your level of seniority there isn't so much difference. When you get down to the lower seniority levels, there is a lot of difference. For the sake of a fair comparison:

Person X hired in Jan 2004 at ASA could probably be fairly-considered "very junior." What's his seniority number? How many are below him? Is he anywhere near the top half of the seniority list? In his wildest dreams could he hold RJ captain?

Person Y hired in Jan 2004 at SkyWest is somewhat junior, but by no means is he "very junior." His seniority number is in the high 1300's. He can hold RJ reserve captain in ORD. He has 700 pilots below him on the seniority list. He is only 16% away from the top half of the pilot roster.

I think you can begin to see why so many SkyWest pilots are concerned about the idea of a date of hire merger. But neither of our two sides will know for sure until we see the list. Maybe it's not so easy to get as it is at SkyWest, but we would sure appreciate the effort if someone could produce it.

The ASA/Comair argument is a red herring because they are comparable companies. Both have experienced similar, limited growth over the past few years. Both are Delta wholly-owned. Both have much longer upgrade times than SkyWest. Both are unionized. Both operate only as Delta Connection. etc., etc., etc.

 

[Lebowski]

Keep it professional

The way in which this board is used is really an embarassment to our profession sometimes. Someone from one side of the fence lays out his concerns and questions, and then an individual on the opposing side posts responses like "grow up" and "you need to get laid." The lack of maturity would be surprising, if it weren't accompanied by the utter lack of reason.

It's been pointed out before by other members, but each person who acts like that on these boards is personally responsible for lowering our profession yet another notch. Be mindful that anyone (passengers, media, management) can view these boards.

Even though a buyout/merger has not been announced, this is a situation that could present significant challenges for our crew members on both sides. Argue your points, but as a group, let's not tolerate any unprofessional behavior on either side. It hurts us all.

 

[Texx]

Keep it professional!

The way in which this board is used is really an embarassment to our profession sometimes. Someone from one side of the fence lays out his concerns and questions, and then an individual on the opposing side posts responses like "grow up" and "you need to get laid." The lack of maturity would be surprising, if it weren't accompanied by the utter lack of reason.

It's been pointed out before by other members, but each person who acts like that on these boards is personally responsible for lowering our profession yet another notch. Be mindful that anyone (passengers, media, management) can view these boards.

Even though a buyout/merger has not been announced, this is a situation that could present significant challenges for our crew members on both sides. Argue your points, but as a group, let's not tolerate any unprofessional behavior on either side. It hurts us all.

Yes, you are correct sir! Are you from the ASA or SKYW camp?

 

[FDJ2]

From what I hear SkyWest does not buy airlines they buy assets. So don't worry about DOH because the ASA folks will be NEW HIRES. Problem solved. Next!

I'm sure that the ASA PWA has fragmentation language that would prevent such a scenario.

As far as list integrations, those who believe it will be a staple are just as wrong as those that believe it will be DOH. IF, the lists are integrated, it will be inaccordance with Mohawk/Allegheny. The ASA pilots will have an advantage given their stronger organization and resources, but it still won't be DOH.

 

[Sinca3]

ASA senority

I am not going to post every 50 numbers but here is what I posted one month ago.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=622406#post622406

Senority Number..............Hire date
#1..................................7/79
#2-50...........................4/80-3/85
#51-150........................4/85-11/89
#151-300......................11/89-3/97
#301-500......................3/97-2/99
#501-700......................2/99-11/99
#701-900......................12/99-6/00
#901-1050.....................6/00-10/00
#1051-1300...................10/00-3/02
#1301-1450................... 3/02-12/02
#1451-1600....................12/02-11/04
#1629............................12/04
1629 is the last one on the printed senority list. ASA has hired roughly 100 pilots since 1/05. We have also lost around 65 pilots since 1/05!
As of the June assignments list (doesn't include pilots in training) the
most junior capts by senority number were:
ATR........1057
CR2........1067
CR7ATL...642
CR7SLC...488


Hope that might shed some light on our relative senority compared to other airlines.

 

[MELIT]

It happened when SkyWest bought Sun air and West air (assets) and it will happen again.
There is nothing asa folks can do about it. Once Delta liquidates them there will be no more "language". Hang on. Next!

I'm sure that the ASA PWA has fragmentation language that would prevent such a scenario.

As far as list integrations, those who believe it will be a staple are just as wrong as those that believe it will be DOH. IF, the lists are integrated, it will be inaccordance with Mohawk/Allegheny. The ASA pilots will have an advantage given their stronger organization and resources, but it still won't be DOH.

 

[propjockey]

At last! A side-by-side comparison of seniority

Thank you for that! Now we can finally see side-by-side why DOH would be a disaster for most of the SkyWest list.

I apologize for the formatting. I can't seem to make anything like a table work in this BBS environment. If anyone knows how, please feel free. You just have to read straight across and note the color.

ASA SkyWest

1 7/79 1 09/74

2-50 4/80-3/85 50 10/86

51-150 4/85-11/89 150 04/91

151-300 11/89-3/97 300 05/97

301-500 3/97-2/99 500 07/99

501-700 2/99-11/99 700 05/00

701-900 12/99-6/00 900 01/01

901-1050 6/00-10/00 1050 01/02

1051-1300 10/00-3/02 1300 02/03

1301-1450 3/02-12/02 1450 03/04

1451-1600 12/02-11/04 1600 08/04

1629 12/04 1629 08/04

2080 06/05

 

[Texx]

....SKYW........... ASA...... SKYW is..

0001 09/74 EC 07/79 +4y10m

0050 10/86 RC 03/85 -1y7m

0100 06/89 EC 05/87 -2y1m

0150 04/91 RC 11/89 -1y5m

0200 02/95 EC 10/92 -2y4m

0250 05/97 RC 05/95 -2y

0300 03/98 RC 03/97 -1y

0350 05/98 EC 12/97 - 6m

0400 09/98 RC 06/98 - 3m

0450 02/99 EC 09/98 - 5m

0500 07/99 RC 02/99 - 5m

0550 10/99 RC 07/99 - 3m

0600 01/00 RC 09/99 - 4m

0650 03/00 RC 10/99 - 5m

0700 05/00 RC 11/99 - 6m

0750 06/00 EC 02/00 - 4m

0800 08/00 RC 04/00 - 4m

0850 10/00 EC 05/00 - 5m

0900 01/01 EC 06/00 - 7m

0950 01/01 EC 08/00 - 5m

1000 08/01 EC 10/00 - 10m

1050 01/02 RF 10/00 - 1y3m

1100 07/02 EC 12/00 - 1y7m

1150 10/02 RC 01/01 - 1y9m

1200 11/02 RF 05/01 - 1y6m

1250 01/03 RF 07/01 - 1y6m

1300 02/03 RF 03/02 - 11m

1350 08/03 RF 07/02 - 1y1m

1400 01/04 RF 10/02 - 1y3m

1450 03/04 RF 10/02 - 1y5m

1500 03/04 RF 05/04 + 2m

1550 05/04 EF 08/04 + 3m

1600 08/04 EF 11/04 + 3m

1650 09/04 RF

1700 10/04 EF 03/05 est + 5m

1750 11/04 RF 04/05 est + 5m

1800 12/04 RF

1850 01/05 RF

1900 02/05 RF

1950 04/05 EF

2000 05/05 T

2050 06/05 T

2080 60/05 T


The most junior CPT/FO..

ATR ATL 1201/1759
CRJ ATL 1131/1756
CR7 ATL 642/1679
CR7 SLC 509/1667


Our CR7 pilots do not fly the CRJ.

 

[propjockey]

Thanks, Texx. I see an awful lot of minus signs on the SKYW side.

 

[Texx]

>>disaster for most of the SkyWest list<<

Lets see, 50 - 200 and 1050 to 1450 are areas for discussions.

I really doubt that some one on the West Coast, or East Coast, that is super senior with a house and family is going to pack up and move to the other coast and do harm to either pilot group in the 1 - 200 range do you?

Also, you probably can expect that there are going to be on average 7 retirements a year in this group on both lists.

1050 - 1450 this area needs to be worked on.

So Mr "Propjockey", where do you fit in on your list?

"IF" a deal between SKYW and ASA were to happen and "IF" they were to merge the two, what are your concerns as a pilot at SKYW?
Is it just the seniority list?

 

[ArcticFlier]

>>disaster for most of the SkyWest list<<

Lets see, 50 - 200 and 1050 to 1450 are areas for discussions.

I really doubt that some one on the West Coast, or East Coast, that is super senior with a house and family is going to pack up and move to the other coast and do harm to either pilot group in the 1 - 200 range do you?

But the potential exists and therein lies the problem.

AF

 

[Sinca3]

That's why there are fences. Probably like a 2 year fence.
As for the integration of senority list what if you did DOH until #1050 then do 2 for 1.
Everyone is not going to be happy no matter how you do it. All you can do is do the best for the majority of the pilot group.

 

[Texx]

But the potential exists and therein lies the problem.

AF

"The potential exists"
Well the potential also exists that you may have a car crash today. Are you going to buy a tank?

Life is not perfect nor is working for the airlines. You can sit here and piss and moan OR you can look for constructive ideas to over come these issues because I would guess that this will not be the only issue. There will be several that BOTH pilot groups will have to work through together IF the two are merged.

If you have been in the business awhile you will know that pilots that senior on the same equip, with families are not going to pack up, pay for a cross country move to fly the same airplane.

So, are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution? Maybe we all should ask ourselves that.

 

[propjockey]

1050 - 1450 this area needs to be worked on.

So Mr "Propjockey", where do you fit in on your list?

"IF" a deal between SKYW and ASA were to happen and "IF" they were to merge the two, what are your concerns as a pilot at SKYW?
Is it just the seniority list?

Your apparent condescension is noted. Yes, I'm still "propjockey" though I fly the RJ. Seemed like a good name -- why change it?

Don't worry. I don't have my sights set on anything that would affect the senior folks. To answer your question, I fit squarely in the 1050 - 1450 range you noted above. As I mentioned, I transitioned to the RJ, but not long enough ago. I could upgrade in the jet now if it were not for the fact that I am seatlocked for another several months.

With all this talk of mergers, I am chiefly concerned about the effect a date-of-hire merger could/would have on my ability to upgrade as soon as my seatlock is released. One of the primary reasons I came to SkyWest was for the quick upgrade. I'm 30-something, have a family, etc. Honestly, I need the money. The prospect of two or so more years of FO pay is frightening. This seems like exactly what might happen if someone from ASA with almost two years DOH seniority on me gets put in front of me.

I hope this answers your question as to why I personally fear a DOH merge with ASA. I'm sure many others may have similar concerns.

 

[ArcticFlier]

"The potential exists"
Well the potential also exists that you may have a car crash today. Are you going to buy a tank?

Nope. I have insurance.

Life is not perfect nor is working for the airlines. You can sit here and piss and moan OR you can look for constructive ideas to over come these issues because I would guess that this will not be the only issue. There will be several that BOTH pilot groups will have to work through together IF the two are merged.

DOH is not constructive nor equitable to the SKYW pilot. So are you pissing or moaning?

If you have been in the business awhile you will know that pilots that senior on the same equip, with families are not going to pack up, pay for a cross country move to fly the same airplane.

I've been around for awhile. Senior or not, you'll move if you have to. Whether or not anyone has to remains to be seen, but there's no absolutes in this business.

So, are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution? Maybe we all should ask ourselves that.

Hopefully, part of the solution. Your problem is that you may not like it.

AF