Skywest - ASA Merger/Purchase

[viper548]

As mentioned elsewhere, how about Percentile for Delta connection ops and staple for United express ops?

 

[Russ]

I hope yours is not representitive of the attitudes at ASA.

If they are I can only hope (if it does happen) that SkyWest simply transfers the flying to SkyWest crews and lets ASA die on the vine. If it is DOH a larger pilot group than ASA will be torqued. It won't be a place you will want to work, especially if you test the waters at a SkyWest domocile.

Staplestaplestaple....

 

[shamrock]

What will be the SkyWest attitude if it does end up being DOH?

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


If this deal happens (if it does), then there is no way your Jerry would staple the ASA pilots/FAs to your list. There would be such discontent that it would affect a lot more than morale. But, since your company would be doing the buying, I would guess that your guys would get an advantage. I would bet 2 Skywest guys for every one ASA pilot, and then a 3 year fence for movement. That sounds fair. And, I still think this deal could happen soon, since we need the money and debt relief, and Mesa sounds interested too, which could prove troublesome for you guys in SLC. You never know.........


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[blzr]

and Mesa sounds interested too

Yeah, they may have their eyes set a little higher than your regional flying. If and when they get those 73's or Air Bus' they may be coming after you. There is always a way around scope, we've all seen it. I would be leery of that group if I were D-Mainline.

 

[Russ]

Gen

I agree, a 3/1, even 2/1 would appeal, but I don't want to move backwards percentage wise or get the boot from a western domocile.

 

[rf285]

Skywest is larger because it grew at ASA's expense.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Skywest is larger because it grew at ASA's expense.

ASA? or do you mean UAL? Please know what you are talking about before posting. Skywest has had minimal, if any at all, growth at ASA's expense. So if I'm wrong, why isn't it at Comair's expense...sounds like a 'woe is me' statement.

Yogi

 

[RoyalAviation2]

Russ,


If this deal happens (if it does), then there is no way your Jerry would staple the ASA pilots/FAs to your list. There would be such discontent that it would affect a lot more than morale. But, since your company would be doing the buying, I would guess that your guys would get an advantage. I would bet 2 Skywest guys for every one ASA pilot, and then a 3 year fence for movement. That sounds fair. And, I still think this deal could happen soon, since we need the money and debt relief, and Mesa sounds interested too, which could prove troublesome for you guys in SLC. You never know.........


Bye Bye--General Lee

Jerry has already said it won't be DOH. However, whatever comes of this, no SKYW will be negatively effected by the merger. Proposals are 5 to 1 (2or 3 to 1 is never gonna happen!) with big fences around our guys.

 

[Bluto]

When did Jerry say that?

 

[General Lee]

Yeah, they may have their eyes set a little higher than your regional flying. If and when they get those 73's or Air Bus' they may be coming after you. There is always a way around scope, we've all seen it. I would be leery of that group if I were D-Mainline.

Just like the rumors of a USAir spinoff flying 737s in PIT? Riiiiight. And, we allow our regionals to fly bigger equipment for OTHER people. Not us. The reason we are trying to sell ASA and Comair is to try to stay out of Chap 11, and our management said they will do whatever it takes to stay out, because they would lose control to bankers otherwise. If they didn't care, we would have already been there by now working our our debt issues. Instead, we are trying to give someone else our RJ debt, like SkyWest or Mesa. We will unload a TON of debt by selling ASA and IPO'ing Comair.

As far as our future fleet plans, we were told in DFW ten days ago (the last DFW pilot meeting, with VPs in attendance) that the MD88/90s will be phased out by 2011, and directly replaced by 737-700s. Our 757s will eventually be replaced by 737-900s. We will keep our 737-800s, and all of our widebodies will eventually be replaced with something the size of a 767, possibly the 787. This will all supposedly happen within the next 15 years, according to these VPs. Will there be EMB-190s in the mix? We don't know, but we would bid on them too.(Jetblue already set a very low pay rate, so we know where to start)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

When did Jerry say that?

Can Jerry Atkins comment on a possible merger before it has happened? Would the SEC approve that? I doubt it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[shamrock]

Allow me to do a little editing of the General.

I would bet (with) 2 Skywest guys for every one ASA pilot....

There would be such discontent that it would affect a lot more than morale.

That's better.

5 to 1? Glad to see you guys are at least being reasonable.

 

[Bluto]

Can Jerry Atkins comment on a possible merger before it has happened? Would the SEC approve that? I doubt it.

General, I was referring to the integration method of a potential merger. There is nothing that would restrict Jerry Atkin (no "s" but you're improving on the spelling of his name) from commenting on the planned integration method for a theoretical merger to the pilots working for his company. To be fair, there is also nothing requiring him to keep his word about said integration method if he changes his mind.

 

[ohplease!]

I guarantee if its anything less than DOH with fences, there will be 1800 seriously pissed off ASA pilots and the operations are gonna get severely f'ed up for SkyW and Delta. That would be more than enough to drag the mostly happy and satisfied folks, like myself, at ASA off the sidelines. I'm awfully happy here and I'd be happy at SkyW as well. However, screw me and I'll screw you back twice as hard. Guaranteed.

 

[shamrock]

Will wonders never cease, I, a disgruntled ASA pilot, actually agree with OhPlease!

 

[Doberman]

There's the attitude!

 

[Splert]

DOH for what ASA currently has and staple for every that ASA doesn't.

Fair is fair.

Good day...

 

[viper548]

After going through 2 months of training at SkyWest with no pay, it would be a tough pill to swallow if some ASA guy that got hired the day before me had more senority. The pilots at SkyWest made a sacrifice to the company to work here. The integration method needs to account for this.
Current upgrades at SkyWest are 14 months compared to 4 yrs at ASA. SkyWest is having rapid expansion of the United system, never even a thought for ASA pilots. Integrate them to the delta side, staple them to the United side if they want one of the united domiciles

 

[Rogue5]

I guarantee if its anything less than DOH with fences, there will be 1800 seriously pissed off ASA pilots and the operations are gonna get severely f'ed up for SkyW and Delta. That would be more than enough to drag the mostly happy and satisfied folks, like myself, at ASA off the sidelines. I'm awfully happy here and I'd be happy at SkyW as well. However, screw me and I'll screw you back twice as hard. Guaranteed.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why a percentile based seniority list integration (you were 67% up the list at ASA, now you're 67% up the list at SKYW) would be seen as getting "screwed"?

I cannot figure out why this would not be viewed as fair for BOTH parties...

Thanks.

 

[rgd]

Did ASA and SKYWEST merge, or is this 6 pages of arguing, whining, and nana nana boo boo over pure speculation? Ya'll do know there is porn on the internet, right?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

After going through 2 months of training at SkyWest with no pay, it would be a tough pill to swallow if some ASA guy that got hired the day before me had more senority. The pilots at SkyWest made a sacrifice to the company to work here. The integration method needs to account for this.
Current upgrades at SkyWest are 14 months compared to 4 yrs at ASA. SkyWest is having rapid expansion of the United system, never even a thought for ASA pilots. Integrate them to the delta side, staple them to the United side if they want one of the united domiciles

I wasn't paid in training. I made sacrifices. Someone said 5-1 merger. Umm, yeah... to fly another RJ for another regional with a crap contract? They'll learn what Atlanta on-time really means. Umm, yeah...

 

[Bluto]

Yes, and you chose a company who is in a position to be sold, whereas SkyWest pilots chose, worked for, and helped to build a company in a position to pay cash for yours.

The threats of "burning down" SkyWest from some of the ASA people make me even more certain I never want to see a merger. That kind of childish attitude doesn't belong in a professional environment. If you don't like the results, be a man, quit, and go find yourself a job which better suits your desires.

As for the contract issue, I've seen ASA's. It's nothing to brag about. Contracts like ASA's are the reason many people at SkyWest are averse to ALPA. If everyone had Comair, Expressjet, or even Chautaqua-style contracts, it'd be an easier sale to the pilot group.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Skywest is larger because it grew at ASA's expense.

Since the majority of the growth has been UAL flying are you suggesting that SKYW underbid ASA for UAL flying? Get real.

CMR lost some flying opportunities to ASA and all DCI carriers are losing to newcomers like CHQ and Mesa.

In the event of a merger career expectations must be considered. Upgrade at ASA is around 4 years. At SKYW it's been around 1.5 years. Should a SKYW pilot have to wait longer to upgrade on account of a merger? Should an ASA pilot reasonably expect to upgrade in less than 4 years because of a merger induced by their cash strapped parent company?

ASA is wholly owned by DAL. So no ASA pilot would ever have an expectation to perform UAX flying. Should an ASA pilot expect to enjoy a sunny California UAX domicile and bid ahead of any SKYW pilot who is on the property prior to the merger?

If ASA is not sold it would likely be acquired by Mesa or simply sold off in the wake of DAL bankruptcy.

The fairest integration scheme will need to preserve career expectations. It's as simple as that. Given the fact that SKYW is the company with the cash to help DAL stave off bankruptcy and the history of previous list integrations at other carriers a DOH deal is simply untenable.

 

[Bluto]

Skywest is larger because it grew at ASA's expense.

Yeah, and Southwest grew at United's expense. So what?

 

[joe_pilot]

Ya'll do know there is porn on the internet, right?

Dude, that was funny. So is this...

I wasn't paid in training. I made sacrifices. A few goats.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why a percentile based seniority list integration (you were 67% up the list at ASA, now you're 67% up the list at SKYW) would be seen as getting "screwed"?
I cannot figure out why this would not be viewed as fair for BOTH parties...
Thanks.

Rogue,

For the record, I refuse to engage in all of the speculation, complaining or suggesting because no matter how well thought out my argument might be, no matter how King Solomon-like a solution I come up with, in the end, it just doesn't matter. Management will do what management will do.

That being said, some people might argue that a percentage split might not be fair because of the growth on the United side. They might say why should ASA pilots prosper for any of that. Even if that wasn't the case and as you said, a person at the 75th percentile at ASA ends up in the 75th percentile in the new company, they might end up getting 'hurt' because their upgrade potential went from 2 years to 3 years. A SKYW pilot, that is.

In the end, you just can't make everybody happy. I don't envy the person with that job. Well, actually I guess I do just a little. They probably have some pretty decent stock options.

Good luck to all. I really hope it works out for everybody.

-J

 

[EUT]

Jerry has already said it won't be DOH. However, whatever comes of this, no SKYW will be negatively effected by the merger. Proposals are 5 to 1 (2or 3 to 1 is never gonna happen!) with big fences around our guys.

Source Please???

 

[ArcticFlier]

Well, this was a waste of my f'king time..................

whiners.............rumours within rumours within rumours............


AF

 

[rf285]

What is Skywest's JET upgrade time? When I was a new hire on the brakilla, upgrade was about 2 weeks. Upgrade times change as often as the wind direction. They are meaningless. FWIW.

Later...

 

[jehtplane]

After going through 2 months of training at SkyWest with no pay, it would be a tough pill to swallow if some ASA guy that got hired the day before me had more senority. The pilots at SkyWest made a sacrifice to the company to work here. The integration method needs to account for this.
Current upgrades at SkyWest are 14 months compared to 4 yrs at ASA. SkyWest is having rapid expansion of the United system, never even a thought for ASA pilots. Integrate them to the delta side, staple them to the United side if they want one of the united domiciles

So my 2 months of no pay and sacrifice to work at ASA is less important than yours! Wow. When I was hired we were not paid or put up during training. So is my sacrifice less important than yours? DOH ...............