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Skywest - ASA Merger/Purchase
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WWEfan
One List
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2003
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- 617
I am amazed that the SkyWest pilots think they would even have a say in the integration of the 2 seniority lists. They are non-union. They have no voice. Their management will handle it the way they see fit. Knowing the ASA pilot group would shut the place down if they were suddenly "new hires", SkyWest management surely understands that is not in the company's best interests.
Ofcourse this point is moot. There has been and will be no sale of ASA as long as they continue to have labor problems.
Ofcourse this point is moot. There has been and will be no sale of ASA as long as they continue to have labor problems.
Their pilots could'nt shut ASA down. Once delta liquidates them, ALPA is out the door. Sure a bunch of them will try but they would'nt find another job flying once another prospective employer knows they walked off the job. There will always be someone that can sit in that seat. Remember the air traffic controlers in the 80's?
>>Honestly, I need the money. The prospect of two or so more years of FO pay is frightening. This seems like exactly what might happen if someone from ASA with almost two years DOH seniority on me gets put in front of me.
I hope this answers your question as to why I personally fear a DOH merge with ASA. I'm sure many others may have similar concerns.<<
Thank you. This is the type of dialog that benefits both sides. The concerns of one group may not be the concerns of another.
A better understanding of the issues can go a long way to resolving differences.
I hope this answers your question as to why I personally fear a DOH merge with ASA. I'm sure many others may have similar concerns.<<
Thank you. This is the type of dialog that benefits both sides. The concerns of one group may not be the concerns of another.
A better understanding of the issues can go a long way to resolving differences.
rtmcfi said:
I'll take a stab... IF SKYW and ASA were to merge into one airline...
1. A pilot may not be displaced from their current "position." A pilot may be displaced "only" if if his or her aircraft is removed from the fleet.
2. The two pilot's lists will be merged into one list by DOH except for the numbers on the current SKYW list of 1050 and greater which will use a ratio agreeable to the parties.
3. There will be a 2 year fence for bidding to the former carriers domicile.
Position - seat, aircraft and domicile
rtmcfi
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
- Posts
- 825
I appreciate your putting up some ideas about how to combine the lists. My question remains, from an ASA standpoint, what is wrong with percentage? If you were in the top 1% at your respective airline, you would remain there. Same for the pilot at the 50% spot and so on. I really don't see how this would negatively impact ASA folks.
What are the fears of the ASA pilot group? The SkyWest fears seem to revolve around.....
1. Getting bumped out of domecile or seat through a DOH merge
2. Having upgrade time get extended.
Both of these fears seem valid. SkyWest pilots, having alot of domeciles to choose from, are probably based where they want to live. ASA pilots, having fewer choices of domeciles have a greater chance of being relatively unhappy with their base, and therefore more likely to bid a SkyWest base, were that an option. SkyWest upgrade time is also currently 1/4 as long as ASA's. All things being equal, a merger will double upgrade time for a SkyWest pilot.
On a positive note, from a SkyWest standpoint, I would imagine that a longer term, solidified Delta contract would be welcome....
What are the fears of the ASA pilot group? The SkyWest fears seem to revolve around.....
1. Getting bumped out of domecile or seat through a DOH merge
2. Having upgrade time get extended.
Both of these fears seem valid. SkyWest pilots, having alot of domeciles to choose from, are probably based where they want to live. ASA pilots, having fewer choices of domeciles have a greater chance of being relatively unhappy with their base, and therefore more likely to bid a SkyWest base, were that an option. SkyWest upgrade time is also currently 1/4 as long as ASA's. All things being equal, a merger will double upgrade time for a SkyWest pilot.
On a positive note, from a SkyWest standpoint, I would imagine that a longer term, solidified Delta contract would be welcome....
wms
billSquared
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Posts
- 2,052
MELIT said:
Two things. Being ALPA prevents us from shutting things down IAW the RLA. If we were sold, which is not liquidation, and were no longer an ALPA outfit, we could legally not show up for work. Which probably would not even be necessary.
You mention PATCO. The gov't did exactly what you mention, but you forget that the gov't doesn't care about losing money to make a point. DAL and SKW do. A disruption in 500 departures for even a few days would be devastating, ala the CA computer crash.
I don't advocate anything militant by ASA employees, but it would be in everyone's interest to do things fairly. Remember this is not just about pilots, but every employee at both airlines.
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ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2002
- Posts
- 901
Texx said:ArcticFlier said:
- Insurance has everything to do with it. You do your best to drive carefully, but that doesn't take into account the other morons on the road. Control what you can. The rest ain't up to you.
- Nor did I say that you mentioned DOH. That's seems to be the running argument. Maybe you need to read before commenting.
- Yep.........hopefully. We have no representation. We have zero say in how this would come down.....if it does. A solution is when SGU says it's so. I don't like it, but that's business when you are non-union. When you grow up you'll learn that.
AF
>>Nor did I say that you mentioned DOH. That's seems to be the running
argument. Maybe you need to read before commenting.
>>>>DOH is not constructive nor equitable to the SKYW pilot. So are you pissing or moaning?<<
As I stated, I said nothing about DOH nor did I bring it up prior to the previous post, you insinuated that I did.
argument. Maybe you need to read before commenting.
>>>>DOH is not constructive nor equitable to the SKYW pilot. So are you pissing or moaning?<<
As I stated, I said nothing about DOH nor did I bring it up prior to the previous post, you insinuated that I did.
- >>Yep.........hopefully. We have no representation.
- We have zero say in how this would come down.....if it does.<<
- Neither do we.
- >>I don't like it, but that's business when you are non-union. When you grow up you'll learn that.<<
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CF34-3B1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 831
CF34-3B1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 831
Pros:
A larger pilot force, who would hopefully eventually be unionized. If we could overcome the name calling and work together, we'd be a powerful group. A nearly 4000 strong pilot force? Think of the bargaining strength. A bankable Delta feed contract. Getting rid of ASA's assinine middle management. Better looking FA's. No hats.
Cons:
The headaches of a list integration. No matter how it goes, it'll piss off someone. The lack of union protection at SKW (CR7 rates, etc) Mormon FAs who don't put out on overnights.
For ASA guys around my seniority (low 300s) we'd be looking at a paycut even if it were DOH, due to the CR7 rates at SKW.
And now, back to reality:
The whole thought of 4000 ALPA pilots flying for a "mega regional" must be a nightmare for Portfolio Fred and his whipsaw buddies. It's EXACTLY the reason this deal isn't going to happen, and if it DOES, why the lists won't be merged.
A larger pilot force, who would hopefully eventually be unionized. If we could overcome the name calling and work together, we'd be a powerful group. A nearly 4000 strong pilot force? Think of the bargaining strength. A bankable Delta feed contract. Getting rid of ASA's assinine middle management. Better looking FA's. No hats.
Cons:
The headaches of a list integration. No matter how it goes, it'll piss off someone. The lack of union protection at SKW (CR7 rates, etc) Mormon FAs who don't put out on overnights.
For ASA guys around my seniority (low 300s) we'd be looking at a paycut even if it were DOH, due to the CR7 rates at SKW.
And now, back to reality:
The whole thought of 4000 ALPA pilots flying for a "mega regional" must be a nightmare for Portfolio Fred and his whipsaw buddies. It's EXACTLY the reason this deal isn't going to happen, and if it DOES, why the lists won't be merged.
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ohplease!
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2004
- Posts
- 1,477
CF34-3B1 said:OK, how's this:
Leave the pilot lists separate.
Y'all can have our ATL FA's, we get your FA's, and even though there are more of yours, ours weigh 30 to 40% more, so it comes out even.
You get Chuck, Willie and 1/2 the rampers. We'd ask nothing in return.
That may be some of the funniest Sh1t I've read on here in a long time....
Exskydiverdrivr
still fly a load or two
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2005
- Posts
- 391
Rumors fly, the accusations run amok, threats of burning a company down are still being thrown out there. Still I have yet to see one ASA pilot explain why a percentage integration wouldn't be a good option. I suspect a few of their F.O.s would hate the idea of a younger DOH Skywest F.O. getting an upgrade before them, but put the shoe on the other foot guys. A percentage integration would offend the least amount of people. Some of us welcome the possibilities that a merger of this size could present. I for one however, don't see where all these threats are gonna get ya.
Exskydiverdrivr said:
I am an ASA pilot that has been there for going on 6 years and I will tell you why your not getting your answer. Because 99% of the ASA pilots are not going to spend their time trying to explain their position on something that:
A. Hasn't happened.
B. Don't know if it is going to happen
C. If it does happen, really don't know how it will affect us because we are union and Skywest is not.
D. Last, if Skywest does buy us, doesn't mean that they are going to merge us.
We, like probably 99% of the Skywest pilots, have families, hobbies, other interests and some even second careers, that don't revolve around reading this board and acting like it is acutally an approved source of information. The 1% of you from both companies go ahead and knock yourselves out with 28 pages on here of nothing but pure speculation and chest beating. Just remember that at the end of the day, you guys and gals are representing a very small part of both companies, so don't go painting everyone with the same brush. BTW, if all this does happen, you have two choices. Quit or keep working for your respective company. Now I have to go. I have a 8:30 tee time. (13:15 Zulu for you pilots out there). Oh yeah, one last thing, there is still porn on the internet. Wander away from this board occasionally!
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
What a Tool!
Their pilots could'nt shut ASA down. Once delta liquidates them, ALPA is out the door. Sure a bunch of them will try but they would'nt find another job flying once another prospective employer knows they walked off the job. There will always be someone that can sit in that seat. Remember the air traffic controlers in the 80's?
Dood, you are so out of touch on this statement that I am almost embarrassed for you. ASA is responsible for around 500 departures a day from three major Delta hubs. If you honestly think that Delta will liquidate us and that Skywest would pick this stuff up is outrageous at best. Delta can't afford any speed bumps in the way of their DCI operations. This alone would keep Skywest management from ever combining the lists as Delta would not allow it.
Additionally, your comment about PATCO solidifies your lack of knowledge on the subject. The PATCO strike was an illegal job action. That is another way for saying "it was against the law" for those controllers to strike. They were and are Federal employees under the GS pay scales. Those cant be changed unless done so by Congress. It is illegal for any Federal employee to strike. And if you can do a little research, you will also find out that the Military was brought in to man the Towers as well as Centers. There were plenty of controllers that did not strike as they new better. It took years to get the staffing levels up to todays numbers. They were later pardoned as some of those guys came back after years away from the job.
Their pilots could'nt shut ASA down. Once delta liquidates them, ALPA is out the door. Sure a bunch of them will try but they would'nt find another job flying once another prospective employer knows they walked off the job. There will always be someone that can sit in that seat. Remember the air traffic controlers in the 80's?
Dood, you are so out of touch on this statement that I am almost embarrassed for you. ASA is responsible for around 500 departures a day from three major Delta hubs. If you honestly think that Delta will liquidate us and that Skywest would pick this stuff up is outrageous at best. Delta can't afford any speed bumps in the way of their DCI operations. This alone would keep Skywest management from ever combining the lists as Delta would not allow it.
Additionally, your comment about PATCO solidifies your lack of knowledge on the subject. The PATCO strike was an illegal job action. That is another way for saying "it was against the law" for those controllers to strike. They were and are Federal employees under the GS pay scales. Those cant be changed unless done so by Congress. It is illegal for any Federal employee to strike. And if you can do a little research, you will also find out that the Military was brought in to man the Towers as well as Centers. There were plenty of controllers that did not strike as they new better. It took years to get the staffing levels up to todays numbers. They were later pardoned as some of those guys came back after years away from the job.
~~~^~~~
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Posts
- 6,137
Guys:
Combining the lists is not a choice the Company can make. It is the law, if ALPA pushes a single carrier petition.
Just because ALPA has not done anything to represent the ASA pilots in the past, don't for a second make the mistake to believe that ALPA would not spring to action if there was an opportunity to "take" a combined ASA Skywest list.
Everyone hired in the last 5 years seems to have forgot labor law even exists - probably because ALPA has not demonstrated how it works. But let me assure you, those rights of employees to join together for the purpose of collective bargaining still exist, even if the books they are contained in have an inch of dust on the jacket.
~~~^~~~
Combining the lists is not a choice the Company can make. It is the law, if ALPA pushes a single carrier petition.
Just because ALPA has not done anything to represent the ASA pilots in the past, don't for a second make the mistake to believe that ALPA would not spring to action if there was an opportunity to "take" a combined ASA Skywest list.
Everyone hired in the last 5 years seems to have forgot labor law even exists - probably because ALPA has not demonstrated how it works. But let me assure you, those rights of employees to join together for the purpose of collective bargaining still exist, even if the books they are contained in have an inch of dust on the jacket.
~~~^~~~
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
USCtrojan
KolobWestwind
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Posts
- 1,942
ohplease! said:
That Sh1TY coach is still there. Yes, the point is auburn had cadillac/brown, cambell, and yup, no points scored. Blanked, nada, zero, zilch. 'SC scored 23..... Jeb Cootr, whatever your name, hop off your sister and give the farm animals a rest. By the way, do you even know where your offensive coordinator (thats Borges) came from??? Take a guess.
Trojan
ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2002
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- 901
PBRstreetgang
Registered Abuser
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Posts
- 3,241
Hey,
Anything less tha a pure staple will cause the majority of SKYW pilots to pout, moan and threaten to drink more bottled water. They will then post mean things about ASA pilots, glare at pictures of ASA planes and then after 15 minutes will be taxiing as fast as ever to save the company more money!
BAHAAHAA
PBR
Anything less tha a pure staple will cause the majority of SKYW pilots to pout, moan and threaten to drink more bottled water. They will then post mean things about ASA pilots, glare at pictures of ASA planes and then after 15 minutes will be taxiing as fast as ever to save the company more money!
BAHAAHAA
PBR
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