Skywest - ASA Merger/Purchase

[jehtplane]

Yes, and you chose a company who is in a position to be sold, whereas SkyWest pilots chose, worked for, and helped to build a company in a position to pay cash for yours.

The threats of "burning down" SkyWest from some of the ASA people make me even more certain I never want to see a merger. That kind of childish attitude doesn't belong in a professional environment. If you don't like the results, be a man, quit, and go find yourself a job which better suits your desires.

As for the contract issue, I've seen ASA's. It's nothing to brag about. Contracts like ASA's are the reason many people at SkyWest are averse to ALPA. If everyone had Comair, Expressjet, or even Chautaqua-style contracts, it'd be an easier sale to the pilot group.

I am sorry, what is your 70seat pay rate again..... the sound of a cricket fart...Our contract YGTBSM. way to lower the bar on those, why not fly for free, ASA is growing just fine without concessions, without lowering pay rates. If this happens I can only hope that we are operated seperately.But DOH is fair. How do you feel that you are putting money up to save Delta, you would be putting money up to keep your contracts with Delta.exam... republic, air whiskey, Good luck to all . How long has some with sen# in the 300's been with Skywest?

 

[propjockey]

SkyWest seniority data

No, DOH is not fair to the majority of SkyWest pilots, some of whom could lose hundreds of numbers and years of seniority in a DOH merger. From what I understand about the ASA list, our senior guys would get hurt, but our junior guys, especially the most several hundred most junior would really take it in the rear. Who's buying whom?

Someone asked what JET upgrade was at SkyWest. Most recent award had some people with only about 14 months seniority in JET upgrade (most junior jet captain now is quite a bid junior to the most junior Bro capt). No exaggeration.

#300 at SkyWest was hired 1998 Q1
#400 at SkyWest was hired 1998 Q3

How about ASA?

While were comparing, how about some of the more junior pilots?

#800 at SkyWest 2000 Q3
#900 at SkyWest 2001 Q1
#1400 at SkyWest 2004 Q1
#1500 at SkyWest 2004 Q1
#1700 at SkyWest 2004 Q4

How about 1800 - 2000? (Oh wait -- I've heard ASA doesn't have that many)

#1800 at SkyWest 2004 Q4
#1900 at SkyWest 2005 Q1
#2000 at SkyWest 2005 Q2
#2080 at SkyWest 2005 Q2 (last person on the seniority list for now)

Bids are about to close so the SkyWest website is getting really slow. I can't get any more numbers right now.

Can someone please post the corresponding information for the ASA seniority list? No need to get specific. I think year and quarter will tell the story plainly enough.

If what I've heard about the ASA relative seniority is true, I don't see how any ASA pilot could honestly say that straight DOH is fair.

 

[jehtplane]

Actually this is almost exact as the ASA seniority list. We are hiring 32 guys a month. So given this DOH would be fair to everyone. And lets be clear about the buying who thing. Nobody has bought anybody. So all of this is hypothetical.

 

[ArcticFlier]

DOH for what ASA currently has and staple for every that ASA doesn't.

Fair is fair.

Good day...

Just to add to it...........DOH for what ASA has now (with fences) and a staple for the rest. Now will someone please tell Jerry that I've figured it out, and he can move on to something else.

AF

 

[propjockey]

There could be quite a difference between "amost exactly" and actual numbers. Can you please put up some actual numbers?

Agreed that it's hypothetical, but I fear the worst nonetheless. I heard just yesterday that the VP of Flight Ops was in ORD telling pilots to "read between the lines" on this. Word on the street is getting stronger that SkyWest feels a lot of pressure a) from Delta to keep our contract and b) to prevent The Evil Mesa from getting their clutches on ASA.

(All this being said, I don't understand the difference between America West's very public talk of a merger vs. SkyWest's very secretive rumors of a merger).

As to who's buying whom, all rumors aside, one thing is certain -- ASA is NOT buying SkyWest. While I'm in favor of being "fair," I agree with many others who have said that we should get at least a little advantage (i.e. not lose) if we wind up on the "winning team."

 

[viper548]

So my 2 months of no pay and sacrifice to work at ASA is less important than yours! Wow. When I was hired we were not paid or put up during training. So is my sacrifice less important than yours? DOH ...............

You got it!! The time you sacrificed ASA doesn't mean squat to SkyWest. If ASA were buying SkyWest, I'm sure you would tell me that my 2 months of no pay in no way helped your company.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I can't believe this arguement. Equipment, Pay and Career Expectations are about identifcal for both companies. Someone really thinks there should be something other than DOH?

Skywest ( if they buy ASA, which I doubt ) is just buying code share and it is fair that they should let the pilots performing that flying continue as they are. SLC is a super senior base for ASA, there are not many Captains hour there and a many of those are rapily approaching age 60.

Skywest is not in any more secure a position than ASA. United is bankrupt and may cease operations in the next few years. Delta is only in trail spacing by 6 to 12 months. Without these airlines Skywest can try an Independence type operation, but we all know how that is working out.

United will fold before Delta. Skywest is looking for some insurance and buying ASA might help sustain Delta. If Delta goes out of business, neither ASA, or Skywest, will survive in their current form.

So, I don't see much point in whining about it.

 

[Bluto]

I am sorry, what is your 70seat pay rate again..... the sound of a cricket fart...

You're right. The 70-seat pay is a major embarassment for us. Nearly half the pilots on property now were hired after the infamous "18 month" TA. We're now working to fix that situation. Even considering that issue though, I would never want to trade our agreement with what you've got now. I know you're working on an old contract, but I would really be hesitant to start casting stones at another company's work rules, if I were you.

 

[Russ]

Yup, I'm convinced. Buy ASA but transfer the flying to SkyWest.

 

[jehtplane]

You got it!! The time you sacrificed ASA doesn't mean squat to SkyWest. If ASA were buying SkyWest, I'm sure you would tell me that my 2 months of no pay in no way helped your company.

What an a$$. Anyway, 300's and 400's in 1998
500's and 600's in 1999
and so forth and so on the point is they are extremely similar so what is the problem? DOH....... Not that it matters what anyone of us really thinks.

 

[propjockey]

Everybody from the ASA side keeps using terms like "almost exact" and "about identical" in describing ASA vs. SkyWest in terms of seniority. I'm not buying it. I've put up some SkyWest seniority data -- now let's see some hard numbers from ASA for the same pilot numbers. I still maintain that SkyWest pilots lose in a straight DOH merger until I see proof otherwise. If a native SkyWest pilot has to wait even one more month (let alone YEARS) to upgrade because of it, he loses.

I agree wholeheartedly that if UAL and/or DAL liquidate, SkyWest would not/could not continue in its present form. But the vacuum such a liquidation would cause (if the government even allowed it to occur due to the mass chaos it would cause) would surely be filled by the likes of SkyWest et al who would buy up equipment and operate as a LCC. Don't you think?

 

[Bluto]

Skywest is not in any more secure a position than ASA.

I can't believe this arguement. Equipment, Pay and Career Expectations are about identifcal for both companies. Someone really thinks there should be something other than DOH?

And yet SkyWest is shopping for airlines while ASA is stalling contract negotiations and closing domiciles. Your argument lacks any real basis in fact. Yes United and Delta are struggling. If either fails, it will mean adjustments for SkyWest. However, to suggest that SkyWest is no more secure than ASA is ridiculous. I wonder what would happen if Delta tried a spin-off/IPO with ASA, how do you think the average investor would feel about ASA's "position". Would you buy the stock?

I can't believe this arguement. Equipment, Pay and Career Expectations are about identifcal for both companies. Someone really thinks there should be something other than DOH?

I can't believe you consider a 14-month CRJ upgrade and a 4-year upgrade identical career expectations. The junior CRJ FO in SLC with SkyWest has been with the company a few months. What is it at ASA? 5 years? On reserve? I know it's a smaller domicile, but it appears from the seniority issue that it is a highly sought-after one. So, in short, believe it, we think there should be something other than DOH. I wish you guys well, and hope that we never have to deal with an integration, but if we do, I hope you don't expect to advance your career at the cost of the careers of SkyWest pilots.

 

[viper548]

SkyWest/ASA

I can't believe this arguement. Equipment, Pay and Career Expectations are about identifcal for both companies. Someone really thinks there should be something other than DOH?
SkyWest has a faster upgrade in the jet and more domicile choices
Skywest ( if they buy ASA, which I doubt ) is just buying code share and it is fair that they should let the pilots performing that flying continue as they are. SLC is a super senior base for ASA, there are not many Captains hour there and a many of those are rapily approaching age 60.

Skywest is not in any more secure a position than ASA. SkyWest isn't the one that's up for sale. I'd consider that a much more secure position. United is bankrupt and may cease operations in the next few years. Delta is only in trail spacing by 6 to 12 months. Without these airlines Skywest can try an Independence type operation, but we all know how that is working out. SkyWest certainly has the money and connections to try such an operation. I'm sure management has leared from Independence and would try things differently.

United will fold before Delta. Skywest is looking for some insurance and buying ASA might help sustain Delta. If Delta goes out of business, neither ASA, or Skywest, will survive in their current form.
I think there's more invlolved than just insurance. I suspect if SkyWest does buy ASA, a large award of 70 seat airplanes will come with it.

So, I don't see much point in whining about it.

I think everyone would be better off if delta just sent ASA off on an IPO

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I can't believe this arguement. Equipment, Pay and Career Expectations are about identical for both companies. Someone really thinks there should be something other than DOH?

Uhhh....what exactly did you say you were smoking?

Career expectation at ASA includes large amounts of UAX flying?????????

SKYW growth and opportunities are derived largely from UAL not DAL. All the junior captains at SKYW are based in ORD and other junior UAX domiciles. SLC is relatively senior. SKYW operates only 50 seaters for DAL. I think all future airframe deliveries are 70 seaters - thus no growth on the DAL side. Sorry but that's just the way it is.

I wouldn't expect DOH if I were you.

 

[propjockey]

Anyway, 300's and 400's in 1998
500's and 600's in 1999
and so forth and so on the point is they are extremely similar so what is the problem? DOH....... Not that it matters what anyone of us really thinks.

More SkyWest figures:

100 1989 Q2
200 1995 Q1
500 1999 Q3
600 2000 Q1
700 2000 Q2

Similar, but different. The news that you've been hiring 32/mo is at least somewhat encouraging.

 

[General Lee]

Everybody from the ASA side keeps using terms like "almost exact" and "about identical" in describing ASA vs. SkyWest in terms of seniority. I'm not buying it. I've put up some SkyWest seniority data -- now let's see some hard numbers from ASA for the same pilot numbers. I still maintain that SkyWest pilots lose in a straight DOH merger until I see proof otherwise. If a native SkyWest pilot has to wait even one more month (let alone YEARS) to upgrade because of it, he loses.

I agree wholeheartedly that if UAL and/or DAL liquidate, SkyWest would not/could not continue in its present form. But the vacuum such a liquidation would cause (if the government even allowed it to occur due to the mass chaos it would cause) would surely be filled by the likes of SkyWest et al who would buy up equipment and operate as a LCC. Don't you think?

Like that successful Indy Air. You could have 200 RJs competing against Southwest and the new USAir...... It would take months or years for you to get enough mainline equipment to compete(train everyone, proving runs etc), and by then you would be bleeding tons of cash and it would be over.

As far as the seniority merge, if this thing happens, the one who buys the other should have the advantage, and I believe SkyWest would have it. But, don't forget that ASA is supposedly getting new aircraft too, and probably bringing 50 seaters and more 70 seaters out to SLC. There won't be a net reduction of aircraft, you would still grow as a whole. And, if you get bumped out of SLC, you can move close to me in ATL. The humidity is great in the Summer, and the mosquitos and bugs are as big as choppers. We in the South love to go hunting for large bugs......You'll love the traffic here in ATL, unless you choose to live way out in the country, where it is more than likely that your closest neighbor (2 miles away) will be named Jeb or Cooter. He'll make sure he visits your house when you are on your long trips to tell your wife she has a pretty mouth. ATL is great. Call me up and I will get us a tee time.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jehtplane]

First off, we still have 2 domiciles, like we have for a long time, SLC, and ATL. Nothing to do with contract negotiations, Delta closed it. Our loads are extremely high all the time we are constantly breaking our own records for boarding. Second whether you believe me or not about how our seniority compares, well I really just don't give a s@&t. I am certainly not saying our current contract is Ok, its not. It is called negotiations and when we do get our new contract it will be industry leading, our pay is already almost there. What you make about a dollar and change more right , per diem 1.50 ,yours 1.60 wow awesome . We are taking new airplanes, we pay our newhires during training put them up in a hotel. No our current contract ain't great , but it ain't that bad. Our scheduling section is what really needs to be reworked, is yours that much better? Or are you just talking out of your A$$e$, My guess is the latter.....

 

[jehtplane]

Yes, and you chose a company who is in a position to be sold, whereas SkyWest pilots chose, worked for, and helped to build a company in a position to pay cash for yours.

The threats of "burning down" SkyWest from some of the ASA people make me even more certain I never want to see a merger. That kind of childish attitude doesn't belong in a professional environment. If you don't like the results, be a man, quit, and go find yourself a job which better suits your desires.

As for the contract issue, I've seen ASA's. It's nothing to brag about. Contracts like ASA's are the reason many people at SkyWest are averse to ALPA. If everyone had Comair, Expressjet, or even Chautaqua-style contracts, it'd be an easier sale to the pilot group.

Oh yeah you are right , I almost forgot when I came to ASA, over 7 years ago, I thought I think I will choose ASA, because we have absolutely no growth potential and because someday maybe If we are lucky ,ooh I am excited ,Skywest might need to buy an agreement to stay with Delta and ASA would be the way in. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** your smart Is this Latoya Jackson psychic network or Jackie Stallone's.. You are obviously wise beyond you years.

 

[propjockey]

General Lee, if I move to ATL you can count on me calling you up for that tee time. Can we please go in the winter? I don't play well in the heat.

If it sounded like I was even remotely suggesting SkyWest would launch an Independence-type operation in the event that UAL/DAL folds, well I wasn't. I don't know what they'd do with their 200 RJs, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that they wouldn't try to make money flying RJs on their own. Uncle Jerry will only milk that cow as long as it continues to produce.

 

[Russ]

Gen
You ain't seen traffic till you live in socal. ATL will be a cakewalk. It takes me an hour to go 7 miles if I leave the airport at a bad time. Perhaps I'll bid ATL, always wanted to be number one in a domocile.

 

[propjockey]

jehtplane, I'm not saying I don't believe you. What I am saying is that based on the limited information you have provided us, I don't believe that a 600 (for example) at ASA is really all that close to a 600 at SkyWest. From your numbers above, looks like 600 at ASA could be up to a year or so senior to 600 at SKYW. That's a BIG difference when you start talking schedules, QOL, etc. If I were 100 pilot numbers higher than I am now, life would be very different. I could then easily hold 3-day trips with weekends off.

General, I hope you're right that, post-merger, the growth would continue for a while. That would ease the pain of a DOH integration somewhat.

 

[tron4000]

Now for some breaking news....Atlanta is a he!!hole, the south blows, ASA is run by Deltamatic Robots, and the Red Roof north is not techincally considered to be a hotel, its simply a large dumpster that happens to rent out space on demand to regional trash like ourselves that cant afford the hilton!!!

Good thing I have the vision and stocked up on my airplane trading cards!



*bagels provided

 

[General Lee]

Just remember, in the South we say "Y'all have a good day....", unless there is a group of people, then we say "All Y'all have a good day....."

ATL aint that bad, the women are nice, the food is great, and we're close to the Red Neck Riviera---Panama City, FL. Also, you better learn to SPEAK NASCAR. You have to stand up in front of the TV (or in the stands) and yell at the top of your lungs "Dam Chevy's!" And, calling operations you have to ask "Y'all got your ears on?"


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rtmcfi]

Can anyone from ASA who thinks a percentage integration with domicile fences is unfair explain to me why it is unfair?

 

[79%N1]

The sale AINT happening........so lets all quit worrying about it!
I got more real problems than worrying about pretend ones.

 

[bobbyice]

Just remember, in the South we say "Y'all have a good day....", unless there is a group of people, then we say "All Y'all have a good day....."

ATL aint that bad, the women are nice, the food is great, and we're close to the Red Neck Riviera---Panama City, FL. Also, you better learn to SPEAK NASCAR. You have to stand up in front of the TV (or in the stands) and yell at the top of your lungs "Dam Chevy's!" And, calling operations you have to ask "Y'all got your ears on?"


Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't forget about college football either. The big boys play in the South. If USC was in the SEC, they probably wouldn't even have a winning record.

 

[Russ]

Ok boys said the same thing about USC

 

[USCtrojan]

Okay, that officially pissed me off. I was willing to let all the bs go about the bogus sale of ASA to Skywest. Whatever, don't care 'bout that. SC would whip the sh!t out of any sec team, any day of the week. We're reloaded with 3 deep in every position with a Heisman QB coming back. You must be one of those dudes General was talking 'bout. So are you Jeb or Cooter? My money is on Cooter.

Trojan

Ps....for the cheap seats.....SC blanked auburn 23-0, just to give you a little to chew on.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Gen
You ain't seen traffic till you live in socal. ATL will be a cakewalk. It takes me an hour to go 7 miles if I leave the airport at a bad time. Perhaps I'll bid ATL, always wanted to be number one in a domocile.

As long as you bring some of them FAs of yers.

We ain't contributed to the deliquency of a good church goin' gal since they closed the DFW operation.

I'm almost sorry this merger isn't going to happen, just because it would be so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** funny watching these people go from singing Kumbayah around the campfire to the BadaBing lounge and "Copy dat".

 

[bobbyice]

Okay, that officially pissed me off. I was willing to let all the bs go about the bogus sale of ASA to Skywest. Whatever, don't care 'bout that. SC would whip the sh!t out of any sec team, any day of the week. We're reloaded with 3 deep in every position with a Heisman QB coming back. You must be one of those dudes General was talking 'bout. So are you Jeb or Cooter? My money is on Cooter.

Trojan

Ps....for the cheap seats.....SC blanked auburn 23-0, just to give you a little to chew on.

It's easy to win when you play high school teams every week. Playing on the road's a joke, in front of what, 50,000 fans? Auburn was a mediocre team that year. Get real! My name is Jeb Cooter BTW.