SKW to retire 66 older CRJs, and add 34 larger ones....

[General Lee]

So where does it say they are retiring the aircraft?

In the title of the article.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[wms]

It says they're removing them from DAL service. If they find flying for the 25 skyw owned planes it's a net loss of 7 aircraft.

We're gonna have to lose more planes than that to keep up with the lack of staffing we will have when majors start hiring.

But, I'm fairly confident a conservative skyw,inc wouldn't have gone into a deal like this if they didn't have something else in the works.

 

[nickgutnick]

In the title of the article.


Bye Bye---General Lee

removing doesn't mean retiring

 

[Freebrd]

Jenny will jump on anything to be a flamer

 

[General Lee]

removing doesn't mean retiring

Hi, someone asked where it said "retiring" in the article, and I stated in the title, which is true. Don't worry, the 50 seaters will all eventually be retired anyway, especially with high oil. If UAL gets the same scope as Delta, it will be accelerated. They are uneconomical.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[brokedash]

25 planes needing homes...I think I'm developing a theory on how this is another piece of the puzzel.

 

[wms]

If Ual pilots pass the ta as it is with concessions on scope(which I hope they don't, by the way), I'm with the xjet erj pilots for keeping a separate list.

 

[Nevets]

If Ual pilots pass the ta as it is with concessions on scope(which I hope they don't, by the way), I'm with the xjet erj pilots for keeping a separate list.

XJT has replacement rights.

 

[Leroy Smith]

And CAL had 50 seat scope. Didnt even make Uni-Cal blink before the CR7s and E-170 started flying through IAH/EWR. Maybe you guys really do have something boilerplate in place, but......

Airline managements have been pretty consistent in finding end-arounds for most anything labor is able to put in the path of what they want to do

 

[wms]

XJT has replacement rights.

We thought we did too. The TPA has added loopholes to many of the protections our individual contracts once had.

 

[Nevets]

We thought we did too. The TPA has added loopholes to many of the protections our individual contracts once had.

I read about one ASA loophole but please show me where the others are? Or are you just saying that because "everything" has loopholes? Do you have specifics?

In any case, if they find a loophole on that one, management will have a USA/AW situation on their hands. They seem to preach the need for performance incentive revenue. They may end up jeopardizing that.

 

[wms]

I thought a USA/aw situation is what erj guys wanted, separate lists to protect lxjt pilots from CRJ downsizing.

There are already xjt crjs at uax and the plan was to expand them. If the ta passes they may be expanded with -700/-900s per Asa's original goals with Ual. The PURCHASE of xe was contingent on a deal with Ual to replace 75 erjs with 70-seaters of some kind.

It could go either way. But rather than fight over it and screw it all up we should look for the best overall solution.

 

[enuffalready]

Even as the Xjet side was hiring and we were shrinking I've been an advocate for keeping them separate and still am. Let Xjet stay separate and leave us crj alone.

 

[Nevets]

I thought a USA/aw situation is what erj guys wanted, separate lists to protect lxjt pilots from CRJ downsizing.

There are already xjt crjs at uax and the plan was to expand them. If the ta passes they may be expanded with -700/-900s per Asa's original goals with Ual. The PURCHASE of xe was contingent on a deal with Ual to replace 75 erjs with 70-seaters of some kind.

It could go either way. But rather than fight over it and screw it all up we should look for the best overall solution.

The sentiment that I see is that if it means having a concessionary contract, them keep us separate.

The replacement aircraft are specifically for the CAL CPA, not the ERJ UAL CPAs or the CRJ UAL CPA.

 

[XPOO]

The sentiment that I see is that if it means having a concessionary contract, them keep us separate.

The replacement aircraft are specifically for the CAL CPA, not the ERJ UAL CPAs or the CRJ UAL CPA.

Just a helpful hint here, INC wont be buying anymore ERJs. Just thought I would let you know.

 

[ASApuppy]

No slamming of the pilots of the original Xjet intended here.

But, my opinion, is that you guys were bought to reduce competition and for your pilots. The ERJ, no matter its merits, are simply temporary placeholders. The main reason for that is the fact that the ERJ-145 is a training platform for nothing other than itself. There is no reduction in training time for the EMB-170 by having a ERJ type. The CRJ is a different story. We can turn a CRJ-200 pilot into a -700, -900, or even a -1000 pilot in less than a week. In these days it is beyond golden to keep a pilot out of training for 3 months if an alternative presents itself.

I would not be surprised if the new United scope allows a few bigger jets while crap-canning the smaller jets. I think it has more to do with pilot supply than fuel burn. Also, when you shrink the range of any aircraft the fuel milege decreases. When Delta starts running a 717 all over Georgia, tennesse, and Alabama, I bet there will be no talk of how much more fuel they burn. Anyways, I woulg figure we would transition the CRJ-200's that Delta disposes to the UAL side and use them as Training/transition aircraft for bigger CRJ's. I am simply looking at this from what makes the most sense given all the variables.

 

[Nevets]

Just a helpful hint here, INC wont be buying anymore ERJs. Just thought I would let you know.

Uh ok. I thought that was common knowledge. What does that have to do with your quote of what I said? Don't know what point you are trying to make.

 

[XPOO]

Uh ok. I thought that was common knowledge. What does that have to do with your quote of what I said? Don't know what point you are trying to make.

You made that comment that the legacy XJT pilots were trying to distance themselves from the legacy ASA group due to the eventual wind down of the CRJ200 fleet. All I was trying to say was that the wind down of CRJ200s will be nothing compared to the eventual wind down of the entire Embraer fleet. If you can't see that writing on the wall then your eyes are wide shut.

 

[Nevets]

You made that comment that the legacy XJT pilots were trying to distance themselves from the legacy ASA group due to the eventual wind down of the CRJ200 fleet. All I was trying to say was that the wind down of CRJ200s will be nothing compared to the eventual wind down of the entire Embraer fleet. If you can't see that writing on the wall then your eyes are wide shut.

I did not make the comment that "the legacy XJT pilots were trying to distance themselves from the legacy ASA group due to the eventual wind down of the CRJ200 fleet." Show me where I wrote that statement. It had absolutely nothing to do with fleet count. In the end, some arbitrator is going to decide how fleets play into making a list. What I said is that the sentiment is that IF it means having a concessionary contract, we rather stay separate. As for the EMB fleet, like I already said, XJT has replacement rights on the CAL CPA that Inc negotiated in order to buy XJT. Personally, my I don't care anymore meter has moved. I'm sure we will be treated with dignity and respect and they will find their loopholes and thank us for all we do.

 

[XPOO]

I did not make the comment that "the legacy XJT pilots were trying to distance themselves from the legacy ASA group due to the eventual wind down of the CRJ200 fleet." Show me where I wrote that statement. It had absolutely nothing to do with fleet count. In the end, some arbitrator is going to decide how fleets play into making a list. What I said is that the sentiment is that IF it means having a concessionary contract, we rather stay separate. As for the EMB fleet, like I already said, XJT has replacement rights on the CAL CPA that Inc negotiated in order to buy XJT. Personally, my I don't care anymore meter has moved. I'm sure we will be treated with dignity and respect and they will find their loopholes and thank us for all we do.

Ok, you may not have specifically stated such but you've done nothing to serperate yourself from the others that have. I respect everything you have to say here, but sometimes you're rationale confuses me.

ExpressJet's costs needed to be lowered. Had SkyWest, Inc. bought ExpressJet the first time around the company would have facilitated moving airframes to lower the cost of utilization. Instead, Continental was able to sign a concessionary contract with ExpressJet. Costs got lowered one way or another. Even with the lowered costs it was apparent that ExpressJet was still losing money. SkyWest, Inc. eventually spent even less buying ExpressJet the second time around. I have no doubts that a unified pilot group between ASA and XJT would finally lead to profitability, but you need to get there first before you dedice to FUPM the company trying to keep you from being the next Comair.

 

[Freebrd]

this from a f#@&g dispatcher, hell, eliminate them and look at the savings!

 

[russtgol]

this from a f#@&g dispatcher, hell, eliminate them and look at the savings!

That makes you sound stupid.. Do you go shopping in full uniform?

 

[XPOO]

this from a f#@&g dispatcher, hell, eliminate them and look at the savings!

Might work...if I were only JUST a dispatcher.

 

[Nevets]

Ok, you may not have specifically stated such but you've done nothing to serperate yourself from the others that have. I respect everything you have to say here, but sometimes you're rationale confuses me.

ExpressJet's costs needed to be lowered. Had SkyWest, Inc. bought ExpressJet the first time around the company would have facilitated moving airframes to lower the cost of utilization. Instead, Continental was able to sign a concessionary contract with ExpressJet. Costs got lowered one way or another. Even with the lowered costs it was apparent that ExpressJet was still losing money. SkyWest, Inc. eventually spent even less buying ExpressJet the second time around. I have no doubts that a unified pilot group between ASA and XJT would finally lead to profitability, but you need to get there first before you dedice to FUPM the company trying to keep you from being the next Comair.

Why did they need to be lowered? Because CAL said so? Ok, that's fine. It makes perfect sense that CAL wants to lower their cost. That is a totally separate issue of why XJT was losing money at the time. They were losing money due to the unprofitably of the branded operation. The only reason why XJT was losing money even after they shut down branded was because the pilots got whipsawed with the help of the Skywest pilots' pilot costs. That's precisely why their condition for buying XJT the first time around was that, among other things, the pilots take a 16% pay cut. XJT got stuck signing Skywest's CPA they negotiated with CAL under those assumptions and thus became unprofitable even though branded was gone. All this orchestrated by CAL begging in 2001. Skywest just happen to be the entity to pounce on the opportunity.

And I whole heartedly agree with your last statement. A unified pilot group, to include Skywest pilots, would lead to much more profitability and stability.

By the way, I never feel the need to distance myself from any statements other people make. The fact is that I feel that we are better off merging lists with ASA IF it doesn't lead to any concessions to any part of our contract.