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Single engine Turbine VS twin piston time

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crisd2007

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Posts
5
Hi Fellows,
I need an expert advice from pilots that are currently or had been with the airlines please. I've been offered an interviews with two different outfits. One uses Cessna 208B Caravans (SE Turbine) and the other Cessna 402s (ME Piston). I'm considering a future with the majors. So which flight time will look good on my logbook and to the airlines. Thanks for any expert opinion.
 
With a total time of 1373 you should be looking to increase your multi-time. Most regional airlines are looking to hire pilots with 1000-1500 total time minimum and 100-300 multi time minimum. If I were in your shoes I'd take the 402 and start sending off resumes to the regional carriers that I REALLY want to work for. Don't settle for your last choice, update your resume every 2 or 3 months until the phone calls start rolling in. Turbine time is a plus, however not required. Same with a degree. Now the MAJOR airlines are a different story, but you'll worry about that in 5+ years.
 
I would try to get 500-750 of piston twin time then go to the Caravan.

If you get laid off, you can go just about any regional with 500-750 of twin time (esp 135 time) and get at least an interview.
 
D'oh! I'm in the Caravan!!! D**n your evil, black heart, Caravan!! :)
 
crisd2007 said:
Hi Fellows,
I need an expert advice from pilots that are currently or had been with the airlines please. I've been offered an interviews with two different outfits. One uses Cessna 208B Caravans (SE Turbine) and the other Cessna 402s (ME Piston). I'm considering a future with the majors. So which flight time will look good on my logbook and to the airlines. Thanks for any expert opinion.
Click to expand...
From a time building pov...I'd say take the multi time, especially if you don't have any.
 
Cape Air is both 135 and 121... if you're flying the 402 its scheduled 135.

Oh, I agree, go for the ME time. Neither 402 time nor caravan time is really going to get you on with a major (you need ME turbine PIC, preferrably over 20,000lbs gross)... but the 402 time will help a lot more.

Plus if it is Cape Air you're talking about then it's a much more reputable company than any Caravan operator i've heard about.
 
ackattacker said:
Plus if it is Cape Air you're talking about then it's a much more reputable company than any Caravan operator i've heard about.
Click to expand...

Then you must not have heard about much, then?

Do they send their pilots to Level D sim training for their initial training, recurrent training and check rides? No?...din't think so.
 
Hi Fellows,
First, I would like to thank everyone for chipping-in with there expert advice and opinions. I valued them all. The 402s is Bimini Air actually and the Caravan is located in Hawaii. After carefull considerations and weighing all my options I decided to go for the Caravans. Yes I am going against the grain here fellows but I'm still single, mobile and kind of partial to white sands and exotic islands. Besides I can always boost my multi from 141 currently to 200+ down the road. I figured work there for a year then apply for Cathay. Aloha to everyone.
 
As a means to an end, if you are sure you want to angle for the gold at the end of the rainbow, then go for some low pay and poor conditions (the low end of the aviation scale is like that) with the idea that someday you'll be well compensated. That percentage of bright young pilots that realize this improved level is a small percentage when compared to the majority of operations in aviation. The prevailing attitude is one of "this is an intership" or "you're not taking this job to stay here." Very few professions have such a poor treatment of those who are the next leaders. Even a medical intern has a fixed amount of time for their abuse, and after that, they are in a good position for success.

I miss the fun of flying the airplane, but friend, that's ALL I miss. I just re-upped my instructor certs, and I may have a part-time job teaching folks how to fly when I'm not selling homes. I wholeheartedly recommend that you have a great job and a great life and have a plane to fly in your leisure time, as opposed to having an expectation of enjoying flying employment. FYI.

Your answer: the multi time will help you more.

Oh, yes. Hello, everyone! Hope you've all been well. :D
 
I wish you had told us who you were going to work for, not just the plane.

The 402 in Bimini was the way to go. PIC twin time is the way to go for a few reasons.

1) ME PIC time at this point in your career is very valuable. It is more complicated to fly a twin recip in a charter operation than a single engline turbine.

2) The only operator of Caravans that I know that would hire you with the time you have is Air Nevada, dba as, well, I'd rather not slander them here.

3) For what you will be getting paid, you will find it much easier to live in South Florida compared to Maui. Also, you won't be considered a haole.

4) Wherever you live now, it's easier to get there from Florida than Hawai'i, unless you have a really nice boat.

I hope you enjoy the experience in Hawai'i, make the best of it, but make sure you have an exit strategy. Good luck.
 
Hey all,

Related question: How would all that 402 multi recip PIC look if I wanted to follow on with a good corporate job? Would it matter if I wasn't typed or had any turbine PIC? Would someone still buy me a type?

-Goose
 
Goose Egg beat me to the follow-up question, which is similar.

I fly a 414 as PIC under Part 91 for a private individual. I have approximately 250 hrs multi (150 of that is 414). I work strictly part time.

Eventually I would like to move into the right seat of a jet, again strictly part time. Probably would remain Part 91.

Should I start beating the bushes for some turbo-prop time, or should I continue building the 414 time, which I know is also very valuable.

I guess my real question is this: Is it possible to move from a piston twin to SIC in a light biz jet without necessarily building turbo-prop time as well?

Thanks
 
Eagle-ista is right. I would have gone to Bimini because they also have turbine equipment you can transition to later on.

Pacific Wings in Maui... oh brother. Well, let me put it this way, you'll get the flight time, you'll get turbine PIC time. For example, SWA for example doesn't care as long as it's turbine PIC. In other words, at SWA, having 1,000 PIC in Caravans meets the requirements, while 1,000 hours of FO time in B737NG doesn't mean a thing to them.
The owner of Pacific Wings is a strange fellow, but keep your nose clean, and enjoy Maui. I'd take Maui over Oahu any day of the week.
 
FN FAL said:
Then you must not have heard about much, then?

Do they send their pilots to Level D sim training for their initial training, recurrent training and check rides? No?...din't think so.
Click to expand...

You know the answer to this question... of course not. There is no level D C402 sim in existance. Cape Air does their 402 training, recurrent training, and check rides in the actual airplane, at no small expense. I guess that's not as good as a level D sim? I guess simuflight is better qualified to teach company procedures than 16 year veteran line captains with 10,000+ hours in type? I guess Cape Air must be unsafe... tell that to the 500,000+ passengers they transport EVERY YEAR without a single fatality in the 16 year history of the company... 9 at a time. Show me a Caravan operator with that record. Plenty of "Level D" trained Caravan pilots have become smoking holes in the ground.

That being said, I didn't mean to denigrate ALL Caravan operators. It is true that I don't really know much about them as a whole. But I've yet to run into a Caravan pilot with as much loyality to his company as Cape Air pilots generally have.

There's a lot more that makes a company "reputable" more than footing the bill for training. The poster asked for general advice, and I gave it. Comments made on this thread about a specific Caravan operator seem to bolster my point.
 
seethru said:
Goose Egg beat me to the follow-up question, which is similar.

I fly a 414 as PIC under Part 91 for a private individual. I have approximately 250 hrs multi (150 of that is 414). I work strictly part time.

Eventually I would like to move into the right seat of a jet, again strictly part time. Probably would remain Part 91.

Should I start beating the bushes for some turbo-prop time, or should I continue building the 414 time, which I know is also very valuable.

I guess my real question is this: Is it possible to move from a piston twin to SIC in a light biz jet without necessarily building turbo-prop time as well?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I personally know several pilots who have moved from piston twin straight into a biz jet. Netjets particularly for a while seemed to love Cape Air guys. (Not that I'm recommending NJ...) Certainly doable. It's all about who you know, not what you know, ya know?
 
ackattacker said:
I personally know several pilots who have moved from piston twin straight into a biz jet. Netjets particularly for a while seemed to love Cape Air guys. (Not that I'm recommending NJ...) Certainly doable. It's all about who you know, not what you know, ya know?
Click to expand...

Good to know! I think I see a plan developing here.

-Goose
 
Wasn't there one fatality?

ackattacker said:
Cape Air does their 402 training, recurrent training, and check rides in the actual airplane, at no small expense. I guess that's not as good as a level D sim? I guess simuflight is better qualified to teach company procedures than 16 year veteran line captains with 10,000+ hours in type? I guess Cape Air must be unsafe... tell that to the 500,000+ passengers they transport EVERY YEAR without a single fatality in the 16 year history of the company... 9 at a time.
Click to expand...

I don't want to slander Cape Air, in fact I flew 812AN and 818AN before Cape Air bought them, and they seem like a quality operation, but didn't a pilot crash in a C402 around BOS while flying solo for Cape Air? I seem to remember this happening while I was based in Boston.
 
ackattacker said:
That being said, I didn't mean to denigrate ALL Caravan operators. It is true that I don't really know much about them as a whole. But I've yet to run into a Caravan pilot with as much loyality to his company as Cape Air pilots generally have.
Click to expand...
Well, sometime we'll have to go out for a tall cold one, then you'll be able to say you ran into a loyal Caravan flying employee. :D

We're the red headed step child and the best kept secret...but we just got feeder of the year, so we must be doing something right.
 
Eagle-ista said:
I don't want to slander Cape Air, in fact I flew 812AN and 818AN before Cape Air bought them, and they seem like a quality operation, but didn't a pilot crash in a C402 around BOS while flying solo for Cape Air? I seem to remember this happening while I was based in Boston.
Click to expand...

Yeah, wake turbulence on takeoff from a 737 rolled him upside down (the Cape Air pilot took an intersection departure). But he walked away from it.

Another Cape Air flight went down in MVY doing an ILS down to mins with strong windshear and turbulence on final. Both pilot and passenger were seriously injured, the pilot with significant burns.

A few other incidents... a pilot once passed out and a passenger landed the plane safely in PVC (with the gear up).

Still... no fatalities (knock on wood).
 

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