sim time as total time

[BlueRidger]

When you were working on your commercial rating, you are PIC but it is also logged as dual. You would double count the same time if it were added as PIC + Dual. Both go in the logbook but they are not additive.

 

[RedDogC130]

If your company lets you add your sim time to meet a company total time requirements, then I would say go for it. CHQ was at one time letting FOs add their company sim time (intial plus any PCs) to their total time to meet upgrade mins. They were even projecting out how much time you would get in the months between the award posting and training (they also for a short time had 2 for 1 credit for any company flying). I wouldn't however add it to you actual flying total time. Most airlines don't count sim time as actual flight time, even though the FAA says a Level C or D may be counted as such.

Why don't you quit being GI JOE and come back and fly the line.... Take care J

 

[shamrock]

No ditto here for me, mine adds up.

It will if you log time only as PIC OR Dual, never both, but (unless it's a company specific application/resume requirement) there's nothing saying that TT has to equal PIC+SIC+Dual.

 

[OCP]

For god sake... You don't ever touch a crj or anything else new without a buch of time in a level D sim. So why is that not total time? How is that any less total time than spending that much time in a (name your airplane) until you are rated for that airplane?

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Total time is total time in aircraft, not including sim...at least that's the way it is in interviews...as a means of checking, ask the FAA if it'd count sim time towards the 1500 for your ATP...my guess is, the answer'd be "no"...I may be off here, but I think I've got it...

 

[Explosive]

Time in a flight simulator or flight training device cannot be logged as “flight time” ("flight time" is a required column per 61.51).


Since it is not flight time, it is not cross country, PIC, SIC, night/day, or loggable as time in any category, class, or type aircraft (since it is not an "aircraft").

Flight simulator/flight training device time can can only be logged as such. It is also considered dual received and simulated instrument.

Look at the regs for whatever certificate or rating you are going for and see how much sim time you can use in lieu of flight time. (e.g., 61.57(c)(1) & (d)(1)(ii), 61.58(e), 61.65(e), 61.109(i), 61.129(i), 61.157(i), 61.187(c)(2)).

But that still doesn't mean that you count it as total flight time on the 8710-1 form. It just goes into the appropriate SIM/FTD/PCATD instruction received, and instrument boxes and will be used to calculate your eligibility for whatever cert/rating you are applying for.

14CFR 1.1 & 61.1 contain definitions
14CFR 61.51 governs pilot logbooks

 

[siucavflight]

For god sake... You don't ever touch a crj or anything else new without a buch of time in a level D sim. So why is that not total time? How is that any less total time than spending that much time in a (name your airplane) until you are rated for that airplane?

Alright go with this guys answer. Then when you get asked why you are logging your time incorrectly on an interview, just say "well this guy OCP on flightinfo said that you should be able to because of the way that you are trained on most newer airplanes" Then just sit back and smile, next question!!

 

[OPECJet]

Why is it that people try and re-invent the wheel centuries after it was perfected.

I don't know many people who actually logged the sim time while in airline training to begin with. It's in your training records, why bother if you don't have to...

 

[siucavflight]

I remember the first day of training at Eagle I asked the instructor if he was going to need my logbook, he kind of laughed at me and said I can put whatever I want to in it, but he was not signing anything.

 

[Flyprdu]

Hey Let em not log it. I don't care. Means they are missing out.

 

[siucavflight]

Hey Let em not log it. I don't care. Means they are missing out.

So are you saying that you should count it as total flight time, or as sim time? I can understand logging it as sim time, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but as total flight time? No way.
Missing out on what? Most of us are flying almost 90 hours a month, what wil a few hours of sim time here or there do for us?

 

[ChickenSled]

Missing out on what? Most of us are flying almost 90 hours a month, what wil a few hours of sim time here or there do for us?

Some companies allow you to use 100 hours of level D toward your upgrade requirement. If you have seniority for upgrade but not enough hours, I say use it. 60 hours of sim, 90 hours a month. 2/3 of a month you just saved. Say $30 FO pay, $60 captain pay. Upgrade 60 hours earlier, difference is $30 an hour, you just netted $1800.

I'm not saying to log it as total time, log it seperate, but do log it. It may come in handy.

 

[siucavflight]

If you have seniority for upgrade but not enough hours and sim hours count toward total time for upgrade, I say use it. 60 hours of sim, 90 hours a month. 2/3 of a month you just saved. Say $30 FO pay, $60 captain pay. Upgrade 60 hours earlier, difference is $30 an hour, you just netted $1800.

I work at Eagle, I did not even consider this.

 

[Rally]

SIM time is not total time. So how about just logging it has sim time in your logbook, not total time and if it comes down to need a substitition for like a ATP or whatever just use the sim time there, (on the 8710) it does'nt have to be total time in your log. The regs say you can substitute it for total time not that it IS total time.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

Hey Let em not log it. I don't care. Means they are missing out.

Surely Perdue doesn't allow students to log sim as total time?!?

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

And remember, companies do what they do...if the POI has signed off on doubling company time, subbing level D time, reducing IOE with landings, etc...that's a company thing...it will not fly thru an interview with another airline which is what I was thinking we were talking about here...

 

[OCP]

Alright go with this guys answer. Then when you get asked why you are logging your time incorrectly on an interview, just say "well this guy OCP on flightinfo said that you should be able to because of the way that you are trained on most newer airplanes" Then just sit back and smile, next question!!

Holy crap you caught me! I'm trying to undermine the entire system! Yes for all those who are reading this... I AM THE DEFINITIVE PLACE FOR ALL LEGAL ANSWERS!
However where does it say in the FARs that a level C or D sim is not total time? hmmm... grey area?

 

[mcleach71]

If you are going to log the sim time, ensure you get the instructors signature. It is Training Time(65.51(h)), and must be endorsed by an authorized instructor as such. Training time w/o endorsement is invalid=>can't be logged at all per the FAA.

Your company records are a different issue altogether, what they require towards upgrade is based on their internal training and line flying record keeping, not just your FAA logbook.

 

[Erlanger]

You can spin it anyway you want but sim time does not count toward total time. Total time is actually "total flight time". Anyone have a definition for what "flight" means?

 

[Erlanger]

Here it is, I found it under FARs Part 1, sec 1-1;

Flight time means: (1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing.