Shuttle Re-entry

[9GClub]

If they land at Edwards or White Sands, which runways will they use?

 

[Sniper Bob]

Trivia question I don't know the answer to: How did Florida get picked for the launch and primary landing site?

 

[dseagrav]

Trivia question I don't know the answer to: How did Florida get picked for the launch and primary landing site?

If we launch it, and it blows up, it does so over the Atlantic. Also, it's closer to the equator, which means lower orbital inclinations, which are cheaper on fuel to get to and maintain than high inclinations. Also, back in the 60s and 70s, it meant we could sail navy vessels right up to the launch complex and deliver parts / men, I don't know if this is done anymore.

 

[Wolfy]

Duck and cover?

Does anyone remember concerns that people had that some of the pieces of Columbia were radioactive when they rained down accross Texas?

I wonder if that was just an urban myth or there was some truth to it?

If true, then what is radioactive on board the shuttle? Anyone know anything about this?

 

[mzaharis]

See "Moonport", NASA's official history on the creation of the Cape Canaveral facilities, focused primarily on Apollo, for a detailed discussion of why Canaveral was selected. It also discusses the pre-Apollo Canaveral developments in brief. Shuttle operations were built off of Apollo infrastructure (VAB, LC-39 A and B, launchers, crawlers, etc.).

Even in 1961, with all of the Mercury, Air Force, and potential Gemini infrastructure in place, there was still a pretty good chance that Cumberland Island, GA, could have been selected for the Apollo launch facilities. Other locations were also considered. See chapter 5 for all the details.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4204/cover.html

Don't know about the Shuttle, but the Apollo 13 lunar module had a few pounds of plutonium on it when it came back to earth. Usually, the LMs were left on the lunar surface (descent stage) or in a lunar orbit that eventually crashed into the moon in most cases (ascent stage - see Apollo by the Numbers for the gory details on location, energy, etc.). Apollo 13 had an experiment that was powered by plutonium decay, and was going to be left on the moon, but when the LM was used as a "liferaft", it was flown back to earth, and only discarded before reentry. The LM, including its plutonium, ended up in the ocean (at least the parts that didn't burn up, including the plutonium,which was in a graphite cask, and sunk in 20,000 feet of water).

 

[bocefus]

"Also, back in the 60s and 70s, it meant we could sail navy vessels right up to the launch complex and deliver parts / men, I don't know if this is done anymore. "


Not only is not done anymore, but it never was

 

[mzaharis]

"Also, back in the 60s and 70s, it meant we could sail navy vessels right up to the launch complex and deliver parts / men, I don't know if this is done anymore. "


Not only is not done anymore, but it never was

Maybe not navy, but barges were constantly used to deliver the first and second stages of the Saturn V rockets. They're currenly also used for some launchers, including the Delta IV (Boeing built a new barge for this). They may also be used for certain SRB components (not sure, though) Don't know offhand whether they were navy or not.

This picture shows some Saturn-1 barge activity at Cape Canaveral.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4204/ch3-4.html

 

[bocefus]

Yes, a BOEING, not Navy vessel, and hardly right up to the launch complex.

 

[dseagrav]

Not only is not done anymore, but it never was

So what did the Navy do with all those capsules they recovered, then?

 

[mzaharis]

Yes, a BOEING, not Navy vessel, and hardly right up to the launch complex.

Boeing for Delta IV. I don't know who managed the barges back in those days.

There were some interesting proposals for launching Saturn V's from barge-borne launch pads during the development of Canaveral, but as you've alluded, those were nixed due to technical issues.

 

[bocefus]

It was Chrysler in ther Saturn V days.

 

[User546]

Does anyone remember concerns that people had that some of the pieces of Columbia were radioactive when they rained down accross Texas?
I wonder if that was just an urban myth or there was some truth to it?

If true, then what is radioactive on board the shuttle? Anyone know anything about this?

It wouldn't suprise me if there wasn't some form of HazMat on the shuttle, however I've always been of the opinion that NASA was quick to issue that warning as to cut down on the amount of looting and artifact pillaging that naturally would occur after an accident like that. Just tell everyone it's all covered in radioactive material and no one will want to go near it.

However that didn't end up being the case. And last I heard, there hadn't been one rescue worker (out of thousands) or anyone assisting in the recovery effort that has come down with any exposure, burns, or diseases from any of this supposed HazMat that was suppose to come down with the shuttle.

And furthermore, you'd think that at the point in the atmosphere that the shuttle disintegrated, any liquids or HazMat would have been burned up and vaporized long before it ever hit the ground.

Bit of scavaging trivia... there is still one of the astronauts space suit helmets that is still missing and has never been recovered. Most likely its in the possession of a scavenger hunter that ran across the find of a lifetime!

 

[mzaharis]

It was Chrysler in ther Saturn V days.

I checked out "Stages to Saturn" when I got home. Chrysler did the first stages for the Saturn 1 and 1B's. Boeing did the Saturn V S-IC stages. Both were assembled at the same place, though - the Michoud facility in Huntsville (Marshall Space Flight Center). Interestingly, that's where the current shuttle ET is built - by Lockheed Martin (just about the only space prime contractor that hasn't been absorbed by Boeing). More different people in that place than a 2 dollar hooker.

Interesting trivia point - the diameter of the Saturn V rocket (33 feet) was determined largely by the height of the ceilings at Michoud.

 

[EagleRJ]

Maybe not navy, but barges were constantly used to deliver the first and second stages of the Saturn V rockets. They're currenly also used for some launchers, including the Delta IV (Boeing built a new barge for this). They may also be used for certain SRB components (not sure, though) Don't know offhand whether they were navy or not.

I believe the SRB sections spend at least part of their journey on a barge during their trip from the Thiokol plant in Utah. The SRB sections are shipped individually, then assembled at the Cape.
They are also recovered by ship. After they parachute into the Atlantic, NASA ships find them, pump them full of air to make them float on the surface, and tow them back for reuse.

There was no reason for the SRBs to be designed with multiple segements like that. Larger and longer cast-fuel motors have been made in the past for earlier launch vehicles. If they were built locally, the SRBs could have been made in one piece, with no O-rings. The only reason for that design was the political pressure exerted to give the contract to Morton Thiokol. It was political pork that eventually doomed Challenger, but I'm not going to go off on that rant right now.

There normally isn't much radioactive material on the Shuttle. Individual experiments may have small amounts, but the only RTGs (Radioisotope Thermal Generator) launched into space have been carried on unmanned rockets (they're only used on deep space probes, and the Shuttle doesn't launch those).
The rumor of NASA floating the idea of radioactivity after the Columbia accident might have some merit, but people are probably getting confused with the NASA warnings about the hydazine on the Shuttle. Electrical power is provided on the Shuttle by three APUs that run on hydrazine (the maneuvering thrusters use it too). It's a fuel that is self-oxidizing, but it's also highly flammable, poisonous, and corrosive. It's nasty, nasty, stuff! It's also the reason you see the truck with the large propeller pull up to the Shuttle just after it rolls to a stop on the runway. Breathing of hydrazine fumes is not a good idea.
It's unlikely that any hydrazine survived the Columbia accident, but it was probably a good idea to keep people from scavenger hunting in the debris field.

 

[KigAir]

What are the heat tiles made out of?