Should captain pay top out at 150K?

[imacdog]

Why don't you read the whole post before you open your mouth and insert your foot.

My point was simply, if someone can't survive on $107K/year with a wife and three kids, while I've got 22 year olds that can do it on 1/3rd of that, he needs to reevaluate.

Way to jump to conclusions though and make yourself look like an ass.



You CHOOSE to put away a ridiculous amount for college fund.

You CHOOSE to have a mortgage on what I hope is a $300,000 house.

You CHOOSE to carry two car payments and have some outrageous utility bills. I remember growing up with my dad as an airline pilot making ******************** at Republic, we were a one car family.

You're not starving on $107K/year, and if you can't survive on that, again, you've got priority issues. It can be done, there are luxuries you seem to deem as priority.

Leave it to the Flight Info morons to come up with the idea that a 300K home is some luxury resort. Or that a family having two cars is outrageous. Way to go SIG, I think you just came up with the dumbest post of the year.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

This thread began with the argument that our wide body captains should make less than what LAN Peru (a lower paid subsidiary of LAN Chile) pays their A 320 captains think about it, I'm talking about an airline based in a country which GDP is smaller than one of our states. Some of you are placing these new lower standards on the economy and what not, there have always been economic and industry downturns, this is nothing new. Some of you have convinced yourselves that it is ok to expect these new lower standards because there are thousands of pilots on the street, guys there have always been plenty of pilots in the world to supply the markets, during the 60's and 70's there was plenty supply of pilots from the military and the salary levels where maintain and increased actually, Why? because it starts with an individual saying, no I'm not working for what you are paying and because they spoke with their feet and when one walked, they all walked. When did we convinced yourselves that it is our responsibility to lower our salaries so that the company stays profitable? I saw an interview while in Japan on the BBC with an Alitalia captain and his wife, she is a F/A for Alitalia and the reporter asked them, Why don't you sign this new contract? you are both going to be out of a job if Alitalia goes under, she jumped right away and said, "I would rather be an average paid waitress than the lowest paid flight attendant" He said, "my son is now 17 and he wants to be a pilot, what kind of a career I will leave behind for him if I accept these terms? No, I'll rather abandon the career before I leave that kind of legacy for my son" and when he said that, I remembered my father's words before he retired, "the only constant in this business is that you will loose your job and the next job is around the corner" I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old but I believe that you gentlemen are the best pilots on the planet and should earn as such, we are the lowest paid pilots of all other industrialized nations on earth and the argument of this thread is that those standards should be lowered?

 

[Mamma]

This thread began with the argument that our wide body captains should make less than what LAN Peru (a lower paid subsidiary of LAN Chile) pays their A 320 captains think about it, I'm talking about an airline based in a country which GDP is smaller than one of our states. Some of you are placing these new lower standards on the economy and what not, there have always been economic and industry downturns, this is nothing new. Some of you have convinced yourselves that it is ok to expect these new lower standards because there are thousands of pilots on the street, guys there have always been plenty of pilots in the world to supply the markets, during the 60's and 70's there was plenty supply of pilots from the military and the salary levels where maintain and increased actually, Why? because it starts with an individual saying, no I'm not working for what you are paying and because they spoke with their feet and when one walked, they all walked. When did we convinced yourselves that it is our responsibility to lower our salaries so that the company stays profitable? I saw an interview while in Japan on the BBC with an Alitalia captain and his wife, she is a F/A for Alitalia and the reporter asked them, Why don't you sign this new contract? you are both going to be out of a job if Alitalia goes under, she jumped right away and said, "I would rather be an average paid waitress than the lowest paid flight attendant" He said, "my son is now 17 and he wants to be a pilot, what kind of a career I will leave behind for him if I accept these terms? No, I'll rather abandon the career before I leave that kind of legacy for my son" and when he said that, I remembered my father's words before he retired, "the only constant in this business is that you will loose your job and the next job is around the corner" I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old but I believe that you gentlemen are the best pilots on the planet and should earn as such, we are the lowest paid pilots of all other industrialized nations on earth and the argument of this thread is that those standards should be lowered?

Great post!

 

[Browntothebone]

Instructordude's schtick is old, tired and played out. Yet some of you still fall for it.

Ten years ago, when airlines were hiring like mad and most of the threads on this site were about who was getting interviewed and hired, a buddy of mine confessed that he used to screw with people on here. He would come on here and let on like he was a young women and "she" would complain because United/US Airways/(insert desired major airline) turned "her" down for the second time and claim that "she" had 1500 hrs and 60 hrs of multi engine and isn't it an outrage that they wouldn't hire "her".

Then he would sit back and watch guys fall all over themselves berating "her" because they had 7600 hrs, 3300 hrs jet PIC and couldn't even get an interview and where did "she" get off complaining....and so on.......

That's what Instructor dude does and people still fall for it......He's laughing at you.

He's not the only one! :laugh:

 

[Green]

Leave it to the Flight Info morons to come up with the idea that a 300K home is some luxury resort. Or that a family having two cars is outrageous. Way to go SIG, I think you just came up with the dumbest post of the year.

lol.....Where I live on the west coast 300k buys you a 1600sqft, 80 year old, fixer upper, in a bad neighborhood. Now with the property bust you might be able to buy that gem for 280 but it's still in the bad neighborhood. A starter home in a nice part of town will set you back at least 500k.

Great Post from Dumb Pilot....We make less than quite a few of our colleagues in South America yet idiots on here think we're overpaid because sailors live on less...?

FYI..An Air France A330/340 Captain makes roughly $355,000USD/year while only flying 65-70 hours/month. Now as airline pilots for what is arguably the richest nation in the world should we be comparing ourselves to Lan Peru or Air France????!!!!! Cmon guys, have a little self worth...

 

[Bringupthebird]

The airline industry in 2008 doesn't begin to resemble the industry of 1971, so why bother comparing salaries? The cumulative effect of 37 years of wage erosion isn't going to be reversed in one generation, if at all.

Airlines are like the buggywhip industry - I don't recommend anyone getting into it.

 

[Bringupthebird]

FYI..An Air France A330/340 Captain makes roughly $355,000USD/year while only flying 65-70 hours/month. Now as airline pilots for what is arguably the richest nation in the world should we be comparing ourselves to Lan Peru or Air France????!!!!! Cmon guys, have a little self worth...

How does one become an Air France pilot? How many do they hire per year? Do they take every guy with 1500TT and 500 PIC Turbine? Does Air France hold a monopoly on any routes or do they compete with everyone on Travelocity on every route?

Pilots have some influence, but they can't change an entire industry.

When the dominant carrier in the US is successful primarily due to extrordinary productivity and it is shifting to a new business model (ex.LGA expansion)that puts that productivity at risk, wage cuts can't be far behind.

 

[Green]

How does one become an Air France pilot? How many do they hire per year? Do they take every guy with 1500TT and 500 PIC Turbine? Does Air France hold a monopoly on any routes or do they compete with everyone on Travelocity on every route?

Pilots have some influence, but they can't change an entire industry.

When the dominant carrier in the US is successful primarily due to extrordinary productivity and it is shifting to a new business model (ex.LGA expansion)that puts that productivity at risk, wage cuts can't be far behind.

Well first off you have to learn French and then marry a French girl...

Yes Air France competes with a multitude of low cost carriers throughout Europe. They do not pay their CEO's 40 Million dollars for a few years of work so I guess they have some savings there. I don't know about the hiring minimums but I imagine you don't see any new hires with 5000 hours total time and years spent at a regional. That is a uniquely American phenomenon in our industry.

As for Southwest Airlines potentially taking wage cuts to 'save the company' I wouldn't be surprised but the pilots would have nobody to blame but themselves. Salaries should be a relatively fixed cost. The history of US Airlines is rife with failed airlines but only recently have pilots convinced themselves that pay cuts are necessary for success. As long as we keep bending over management is going to keep asking for paycuts. Why bother managing an airline when you can just ask the suckers who fly the planes to give up 200, 300, 900 million dollars? If low wages equaled success then US Airways would be dominating the industry.

It all comes down to skilled management. Ryan Air pays their FO's roughly 125k/year to fly a 737. That airline operates in arguably the most cutthroat market in the world and they are the lowest of the low cost carriers. You have to buy your own cokes and uniforms but their pilots make more than most passenger carriers in the US. I get the feeling that, in general, top management at foreign carriers actually knows something about the airline biz...Here in the states we get blowhards like Kirby, Parker, Lorenzo, Icahn, Tilton, Carty, etc who talk a good game and then bail with a handsome payout.

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/77452/jal-ceo-takes-a-pay-cut-flies-airline-out-of-turbulence.html

 

[Bringupthebird]

Salaries should be "relatively fixed"? What's that mean? Relative to what?

And does Air France, et. al. compete with Ryanair or do their affiliates?

The airline business is a commodity and commodities tend not to attract the best CEO's. Overpaid? Yes, but not the best. The best CEOs are in growing industries trying to establish their place in uncharted waters, kind of like the airlines in the 40's and 50's. You are likely to see more Parkers and fewer Juan Trippes.

And because of that, you are likely not to see pilot wages going up significantly.

 

[SSDD]

So with all this banter, no one is willing to stick their neck out as say how much is adequate compensation for an airline pilot?