Should an ATP be required for both pilots?

[ultrarunner]

In short, YES!!!

You can't even apply to a company like NetJets (I know, they are a fractional) unless you have the minimum number of hours AND the ATP.

Outfits like NetJets are providing service to an entirely different class of customer.

Airlines are hauling mail and cattle, and could give a $hit! THAT is the reason some of these 121 carriers are crewing their planes with pilots who meet ONLY the BARE minimum requirements!

Ask any NetJets ACP how many of their pilots are flying around with multiple PC failures!

 

[30West]

Maybe Colgan's training department should've done the right thing a long time ago and gotten rid of him. Things that make you go Hhhhmmmm......

The training dept. doesn't hire/fire. HR does.

 

[skyaddict]

Even if the dual ATP requirement wouldn't have directly prevented 3407, the furor around the perception of "McDonald's"-level employees flying the traveling public gives us a possibly once in a lifetime (and short-lived) opportunity to restrict pilot supply and thereby boost pilot bargaining power, pay, and benefits, ultimately benefiting safety at the bottom end of the food chain. We should jump on this.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Even if the dual ATP requirement wouldn't have directly prevented 3407, the furor around the perception of "McDonald's"-level employees flying the traveling public gives us a possibly once in a lifetime (and short-lived) opportunity to restrict pilot supply and thereby boost pilot bargaining power, pay, and benefits, ultimately benefiting safety at the bottom end of the food chain. We should jump on this.

And we have a winner....

 

[Flyin Tony]

I say no! You have to be 23 to get the ATP, thats going to stop alot of us young people from getting on at the airlines. I was 21 and sitting in the left seat of the E120 and SA227, I think its all about experience.

 

[Superpilot92]

Dual ATPs wouldn't have changed a thing in the 3407 crash. The ATP himself is the one who failed to control sterile cockpit and ultimately was distracted enough to forget that when you add drag and don't add power, the aircraft stops flying. He also forgot that when the aircraft stops flying, it stalls, and when you through a whole bunch of rudder in there, it spins. There's also that whole thing about the aircraft isn't certified for spin recovery, too. She's just at fault for not shutting the hell up. How would an ATP have stopped this? The CA failed 5 rides total, 2 of which were with Colgan. Maybe Colgan's training department should've done the right thing a long time ago and gotten rid of him. Things that make you go Hhhhmmmm......

This discussion isnt about the colgan crash. Its about whether or not a pilot working in the 121 Airline profession should be held to Airline Transport Pilot standards. Most believe that ALL pilots should. It would be safer, it would help bring pay and treatment of pilots up. Without that standard than the airlines will continue to hire anyone with a fresh ticket regardless of whether or not they should be flying in the 121 world. Currently the airlines have set the pay up so low that they just hire anyone they can to fill a required seat.

 

[Lou3]

Outfits like NetJets are providing service to an entirely different class of customer.

Airlines are hauling mail and cattle, and could give a $hit! THAT is the reason some of these 121 carriers are crewing their planes with pilots who meet ONLY the BARE minimum requirements!

Ask any NetJets ACP how many of their pilots are flying around with multiple PC failures!

I'm well aware of that (hence the parenthesis) however, the average 'Joe' still deserves the same level of Safety (if not the pampering). A human life is a human life, the worth of that life should not be based upon economics.

 

[Lou3]

I say no! You have to be 23 to get the ATP, thats going to stop allot of us young people from getting on at the airlines. I was 21 and sitting in the left seat of the E120 and SA227, I think its all about experience.

Tony, I don't mean any disrespect to you and I also agree that experience matter's however, MOST people are not ready to handle the responsibility that Part 121 flying truly entails until they are at least 23. Heck, most people that attend college don't even graduate until about age 23 and then begin working in their chosen major. There is simply a certain amount of maturity and 'life seasoning' that is required to perform this job that is independent of pure flying skills and ability. Your achievement at age 21, while certainly impressive, is not typically the norm.

 

[ultrarunner]

...A human life is a human life, the worth of that life should not be based upon economics.

Of course is shouldn't. But it is!

It will only be until such time as one of these outfits kills a senators wife and kids that the pathetic practice of hiring COMPLETELY INEXPERIENCED PILOTS will get noticed...

It's the best argument to sticking with mainline..PERIOD...

 

[cjdriver]

In corporate aviation, most reputable organizations type every pilot and have co-captains. Why would you not want the highest certification, training and experience in the cockpit; the answer could only be economic. Airlines should require ATP's and type ratings for both pilots. This would probably have prevented the 3407 accident.