Should an ATP be required for both pilots?

[deadstick]

That would be very easy to handle via a transition period where all current 121 FOs will be given a certain time frame to get the ATP minimums and pass the checkride. Something like three years would give all 121 pilots the chance to meet those requirements.

Playing devil's advocate here "Why do you mean three years?!?! They don't meet the experience requirements. So they shouldn't be in airliners! You're just asking for another Buffalo-style accident."



This is HRC's replacement. I'm no fan of the party, but I like her approach.

Honorable Mark V. Rosenker, Acting Chairman
National Transportation Safety Board
490 L'Enfant Plaza, SW
Washington, DC 20594


Dear Chairman Rosenker,

Over the course of the last week, we have heard shocking testimony about the grave errors that were made by the pilots of Continental Flight 3407. I am outraged to learn that the horrible crash could have been prevented had mistakes not been made.

As you thoroughly examine the evidence from this hearing and issue recommendations, I ask that you responsibly assess where the blame should truly lie. On behalf of the families who lost loved ones in this tragedy and all Americans who depend on safe air travel, I urge you not to turn the pilots of Flight 3407 into scapegoats.

While it appears that the pilots of this aircraft committed grave errors, their conduct seems to be an indictment of the aviation system as a whole. These pilots are the product of an aviation system where training, salaries, and oversight are severely flawed. We all heard how the co-pilot only made $16,000 a year, which obviously does not even cover the cost of living for a Newark-based crew member. Crew members live so far away and are not given proper accommodations before their flights, leaving them exhausted and ill-equipped to do their job.

Furthermore, these pilots did not have enough training for typical winter conditions in the northeast. In addition, the witness from the human resources department could not answer simple questions about requirements and qualifications for pilots.

Failing to hold the system accountable would be a further injustice to these families and all consumers across the country. The Federal Airline Administration must accept some of the responsibility for the tragedy in Buffalo, or these systemic risks and failures will continue.

Justice must be served for the men and women who lost their lives in the horrible accident of Flight 3407, and that does not mean resting all the blame on the pilots.

These pilots made grave errors but were also a product of an industry that is not adequately training or caring for their workers.

Sincerely,
Kirsten E. Gillibrand
United States Senator

 

[Lou3]

Do it! And Fast!

Require an ATP to work for any Part 121 Air carrier. It may not be a perfect solution however, it is a positive step in the right direction.

 

[imacdog]

Okay, replace three years with any number you think is reasonable. You cannot make a drastic change to FARs and expect immediate compliance.

 

[Superpilot92]

Okay, replace three years with any number you think is reasonable. You cannot make a drastic change to FARs and expect immediate compliance.

They did with Age 65

uke:AGE 65 :smash:

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The government is much more likely to do a knee jerk poorly instituted "fix" like Age 65 rather than a well thought out, phased in system like the one suggested.

 

[skyaddict]

Definitely impose a left and right seat part 121 ATP requirement. Judging by the FI poll results this is one time we could really help push this with a write in campaign to our representatives as well as to the FAA if it ever comes to an NPRM. Ditto on duty hour revisions as regards fatigue. However, my gut feeling is that all we'll see come out of this accident in the end is a new audible low-speed warning prior to activating the shaker.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Dual ATPs wouldn't have changed a thing in the 3407 crash. The ATP himself is the one who failed to control sterile cockpit and ultimately was distracted enough to forget that when you add drag and don't add power, the aircraft stops flying. He also forgot that when the aircraft stops flying, it stalls, and when you through a whole bunch of rudder in there, it spins. There's also that whole thing about the aircraft isn't certified for spin recovery, too. She's just at fault for not shutting the hell up. How would an ATP have stopped this? The CA failed 5 rides total, 2 of which were with Colgan. Maybe Colgan's training department should've done the right thing a long time ago and gotten rid of him. Things that make you go Hhhhmmmm......

 

[imacdog]

While both crewmembers were talking below 10K, in the moments leading up to the approach there was no extraneous conversation at all. Yes, the captain absolutely botched the speed control and resulting attempted stall recovery. Do we owe it to ourselves and our passengers to raise the bar in terms of pilot requirements to fly for a 121 air carrier? Yes, and now would be the time to finally act on what many have been thinking for some time.

 

[igneousy2]

FORGET IT, PEOPLE!

I know people who got hired at Eastern and United back in the day who had never flown a plane with two or more engines and who had less than 300 hrs.

Oh yea! What was HER name?

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

I completely support having an ATP prior to working at a Regional or Major. I know why, but never understood how United and other Majors were able to post the minimum commercial requirements, in terms of experience for hire, when selecting applicants. This is not just a problem for Regionals. It is becoming systemic in our industry and will most likely continue.