Should an ATP be required for both pilots?

[ASA_Aviator]

So let me get this straight. An abundance of pilots is a good thing for the pilot group? A shortage of pilots is bad for the pilot group?

No, I didn't say that. You are right that a shortage will drive up salaries, and it is good for an individual pilot group, up to a point. But overall, the regional industry will suffer if there is a pilot shortage, long term. Pay can only go up so much, especially since we already make more per seat-mile than mainline pilots. (People flying 250 seat aircraft do not make 5 times what a 50 seat captain makes, given the same longevity.)

Having an abundance of pilots isn't good, but it is better to be able to staff your airline and keep Mother Delta happy than to be canceling flights due to lack of crews. Sure, give the FOs 50K a year to start, and you will have no problems staffing, but Delta will stop giving you flying because you aren't the "second lowest cost" carrier after 3 years.

I don't know what the answer is. I'm just sitting in the stands, waiting for the pileup. We are going to be in a world of hurt in 2-3 years, staffing wise.

 

[BoilerUP]

Having an abundance of pilots isn't good, but it is better to be able to staff your airline and keep Mother Delta happy than to be canceling flights due to lack of crews. Sure, give the FOs 50K a year to start, and you will have no problems staffing, but Delta will stop giving you flying because you aren't the "second lowest cost" carrier after 3 years.

If federally-regulated minimums to fly for a 121 carrier (such as an ATP) affected *all* regional airlines, then all regional airlines would have the same problem recruiting pilots and all would have to change their compensation in order to recruit & retain talent. Imagine that...

In that instance, all regionals would become more expensive and the best-case scenario would be for regionals to shrink and mainline to start in-sourcing that flying.

Wouldn't that be great for everyone's career?

 

[samballs]

While its great to have an ATP, if one started training today they could have one in roughly 2 years. That is not exp.

 

[rustypigeon]

but Delta will stop giving you flying because you aren't the "second lowest cost" carrier after 3 years.

Who are they going to give the flying to? Another regional with the same problem, or are they going to just carry 50 pax themselves in a 737?

 

[livin'thesim]

Requiring an ATP might force airlines to pay enough that it would bring back the experienced guys who are thinking about leaving for jobs that pay.

 

[Poahi]

Requiring an ATP might force airlines to pay enough that it would bring back the experienced guys who are thinking about leaving for jobs that pay.

Don't forget the law of unintended consequences. It also might give the regionals enough incentive to create their own programs which would allow them to reduce the total time required for the ATP while keeping the Feds happy and the only ones getting hurt by it are the instructors.

 

[DX Rick]

I say no. I say the FAA should require all airlines to make the ATP mins their hiring mins, and that's it.
This shouldn't be like SWA, wwhere you have to pay for a type or ATP to get a job.
The airlines should be the one forking out the cash for the types and ATP ratings.

 

[Speedtape]

Nothing will change, and there will be more of the same. It's about $, and as long as that is the controlling factor, standards will be low. There is always a labor pool that will work for substandard wages and benefits so that they can have a "lottery" chance of getting that big job flying, the big iron.

As Pilots, we are totally responsible for debasing our Profession!

 

[LearLove]

3 routes to the seat of a 121 (greater than 19 seats).

1. military - 1500tt (helo/jet fighter/trans)

2. comm/sel cfii mei- instruct the range from pvt to inst to multi to 1500tt then get atp.

2.5 banner tow, range clear, traffic, fire fight but you must also get above cfi ratings to 1500tt then atp.

3. get comm sel/multi and cfi and instruct until 500tt then right seat of 135 (up to 19 seats but with 121 rest regs) to 1500tt then you can be PIC with atp or get atp and go to 121.

 

[livin'thesim]

Don't forget the law of unintended consequences. It also might give the regionals enough incentive to create their own programs which would allow them to reduce the total time required for the ATP while keeping the Feds happy and the only ones getting hurt by it are the instructors.

While I am a big believer in that law, in this case I think that the FAA would be very unlikely to reduce that below 1500 hours.

In the event of another accident, it would look bad for them. Heck, it would not shock me one bit if some day they raised the ATP hour requirement.

Not sayin' they should, just saying that I personally would not be that surprised.

 

[cjdriver]

Nothing will change until a senator or rep's family get's killed. Then all hell will break loose.

 

[say again]

Nothing will change until a senator or rep's family get's killed. Then all hell will break loose.

Sad, but true

 

[brokeflyer]

while there at it, raise the minimums for SIC's to 2500 TT for any 121/135 carriers.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Having an abundance of pilots isn't good, but it is better to be able to staff your airline and keep Mother Delta happy than to be canceling flights due to lack of crews. Sure, give the FOs 50K a year to start, and you will have no problems staffing, but Delta will stop giving you flying because you aren't the "second lowest cost" carrier after 3 years.

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[Browntothebone]

MPL will cure the training and proficiency problem at the regionals. MPL should also be a partnership between the regional and it's codeshare major partner. The major should recruit and screen candidates and have the candidate self-sponsor through the MPL program. Then the candidate would serve a period of time at the regional partner airline and be mentored by senior regional captains. When the candidate is seasoned, they would transfer to the mainline and fly mainline jets.

This would be a win-win for both the major and regional airline. The major would get pilots who are hand picked, thouroughly screened and whose entire training would be flying multi-crew jets and be groomed to the standards of the major airline from day one. They would attract the "best of the best"
in candidates, knowing the they will be flying at a major after being mentored at the regionals. The regional would benefit from having the candidate f/o serving his mentoring period at the regional at a reduced rate of pay, knowing that the candidate is only going to be there a short period of time before he moves on to the major partner. The f/o's training and turnover cost would be zero, as the candidate would self sponsor. The regional and the public, would benefit because the captains at the regional would gain experience while mentoring the candidates.

 

[ohplease!]

MPL will cure the training and proficiency problem at the regionals. MPL should also be a partnership between the regional and it's codeshare major partner. The major should recruit and screen candidates and have the candidate self-sponsor through the MPL program. Then the candidate would serve a period of time at the regional partner airline and be mentored by senior regional captains. When the candidate is seasoned, they would transfer to the mainline and fly mainline jets.

This would be a win-win for both the major and regional airline. The major would get pilots who are hand picked, thouroughly screened and whose entire training would be flying multi-crew jets and be groomed to the standards of the major airline from day one. They would attract the "best of the best"
in candidates, knowing the they will be flying at a major after being mentored at the regionals. The regional would benefit from having the candidate f/o serving his mentoring period at the regional at a reduced rate of pay, knowing that the candidate is only going to be there a short period of time before he moves on to the major partner. The f/o's training and turnover cost would be zero, as the candidate would self sponsor. The regional and the public, would benefit because the captains at the regional would gain experience while mentoring the candidates.

Are you F'n retarded?!? sorry, I usually just ignore your stupidity but damn man! You sound dumber every day. Take a break dude.

 

[Dornier 335]

Are you F'n retarded?!? sorry, I usually just ignore your stupidity but damn man! You sound dumber every day. Take a break dude.

That's a way of putting it. Speaking of ... where did my reply go?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

MPL will cure the training and proficiency problem at the regionals. MPL should also be a partnership between the regional and it's codeshare major partner. The major should recruit and screen candidates and have the candidate self-sponsor through the MPL program. Then the candidate would serve a period of time at the regional partner airline and be mentored by senior regional captains. When the candidate is seasoned, they would transfer to the mainline and fly mainline jets.

This would be a win-win for both the major and regional airline. The major would get pilots who are hand picked, thouroughly screened and whose entire training would be flying multi-crew jets and be groomed to the standards of the major airline from day one. They would attract the "best of the best"
in candidates, knowing the they will be flying at a major after being mentored at the regionals. The regional would benefit from having the candidate f/o serving his mentoring period at the regional at a reduced rate of pay, knowing that the candidate is only going to be there a short period of time before he moves on to the major partner. The f/o's training and turnover cost would be zero, as the candidate would self sponsor. The regional and the public, would benefit because the captains at the regional would gain experience while mentoring the candidates.

dude weren't you at Allegheny?

 

[thebest]

How many 121 captains that crashed had an ATP? Do you really think it makes a F&uckin' difference! Smartin up a**holes, and stop acting like the press!