Serious Question: CAL or FEDEX

[AlbieF15]

How long would you guess, oh poster of 1432 questions?

 

[Deuce130]

After reading through this, I'd have to tell you to go to Cal. As a loyal company man, I'd hate to see FDX hire someone of your questionable judgement! If you can't figure this one out, then I'm not sure we need you!

 

[IAHERJ]

Quote:

After reading through this, I'd have to tell you to go to Cal. As a loyal company man, I'd hate to see FDX hire someone of your questionable judgement! If you can't figure this one out, then I'm not sure we need you!




Now I might be completely stupid here but I really think that the question the origional poster has is legit. I just left AirTran for Continental. I put in 2 years and 8 months at AirTran and would be attending the December 717 upgrade class had I stayed at AirTran. I loved my time at AirTran and my decision had nothing to do with AirTran at all. Great airline with a great group of pilots there. My dream has always been to fly long haul(or at least have the opportunity to do so) for an International airline where I would eat gormet food enroute to a 40 hour layover somewhere halfway around the world. After checking open time on the NYC 756 subbase for December I have found several pairings that have just that and even a reserve could end up in a different country each trip for the month. I know all the negative on Continental and the other pax carriers but I didn't get into this job to fly cargo and that is why(for better or worse) I have never applied to any of the cargo carriers. I am well aware that fiscally I am being completely ludicrous. I know that Fedex, UPS, DHL, etc are stronger financially and pay more money and I know that all the flying is not night etc. however you only live once. If you grew up dreaming to fly for a United, American, Northwest or Continental, then do it. I truly think that there will be an end to the downward spiral the legacy airlines have taken. I believe that Continental will be one of the remaining carriers when the dust finally settles. Continental flies to more International destinations than any other U.S. airline and as a pilot you have the opportunity to go places early in your career that you would only see later in life if you worked for most of the other global carriers.

It depends on your individual situation. The responsible thing would be to go to FEDEX. The responsible thing for me to do would have been to stay at AirTran and upgrade and make a great living working with some great people. I couldn't live with myself if I spent the rest of my career wondering what if??? Continental was always my dream job for reasons that would take up this entire server. So I am very biased. If Continental is not your dream and you are just looking for the right move financially then I think the choice is obvious.

I only post this to give a different view than what has been expressed above. Most people like me are afraid to post. Those of us who still love the airlines and what airline flying is all about are tracked down by our medical examiners for emergency psychiatric evaluations. Do what you think is right but don't count out Continental. PM me if you have any specific questions about Cal.

IAHERJ

 

[AlbieF15]

Let's see...you are happy you are at your dream job. A bunch of guys behind you at AirTran are happy you left because they move up a number. One lucky guy that gets the nod off the street will be filling a job you left. Sounds pretty much like a win/win/win deal to me...except your old airline has a few more training costs. Considering how much of the money you save your company actually flows into your pocket (vice the shareholders) I say to hell with them....follow your heart.

I just worked with a guy who left Continental to join FDX. One client had a SWA and a Continental job and went with CAL. There are NO guarantees in this business, so as long as you can look in the mirror and are happy with your choice I say "good luck man!"

I love working at FedEx. However, I live on the FLA Gulf Coast, can drive to work in a pinch, and with my military obligations very rarely fly a full month's BLG. It works for me, but a guy stuck on the panel for a year will have a tough initiation to the company for a while. Its all about what works best for you. As an interview coach and a line pilot, I LOVE to hear about guys jumping from one job to another. Obviously--the more hiring going on the better for business. However, what benefits ALL of us is when people leave one carrier to go to another it costs the companies money. When airlines have to look at amortizing more trianing costs verses raising pay and benefits, the more we show management we CAN move the more leverage we can apply during negotiations. God knows its a tough market right now, so anything we have that might work slightly to our favor is certainly a good thing.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Interesting question. To pose it indicates, to me, that you aren't looking at the two like an investor. FedEx is much more financially healthy, has great revenue growth and has a product that is tough to duplicate. Not so for passenger carriers. They are in a largely commodity business with fewer barriers to entry. Profits today may not mean profits tomorrow. I see Sir Branson didn't announce a Virgin USA Express cargo venture. Too much investment is required for that. I'm also betting he will pay his employees peanuts for the privilege of working for him.

Why is that important? Labor will always be under pressure in a commodity business. The fact that Fedex pilots make more than UPS, and probably DHL, is not affecting their global expansion in the least. The cost of express cargo labor is a smaller portion of the revenue and the profit margin is higher.

 

[kaisersose]

Cargo is job security right now. United was job security pre 9/11 and LCC's. I know a few guys who left UPS for UAL and it seemed like a no brainer. Imagine an upstart low cost overnight freight company delivering for 5 dollars a letter. FedEx and UPS would eventually start talking cost cutting etc. I'm not saying it will happen but over a career many stranger things will happen. Heck, UPS started flying passengers for a while in the 90's because the yields on pax tickets were so high. How things have and will continue to change. Put a blindfold on and throw a dart.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

my 2 cents

I debated posting this but WTF. I left FedEx for Continental.

I was at FedEx for 4.5 years. Just over 2 years on the 72 panel and 2 years right seat 72. I really didn't enjoy flying cargo. I found it very boring and difficult to feel well rested. It wasn't that I couldn't do it, it just wasn't fun.

I really liked what I saw at Continental so I applied and got hired early in 2001. My bad timing gave me 3.5 years of furlough to think about my decision.

I'm back flying for CAL now and I can honestly say I made the right decision for me. Continental is a great airline and flying the line is a blast. Like someone else posted, life is too short. I really enjoy flying again. FWIW.

 

[Flopgut]

Rich: I remember when you posted that info some time ago, I felt awful for you at the time. Congratulations on getting back! I feel fortunate to be at CAL, fortunate to be working for sure. But I'll tell you something that both torks me off and would cause me to suggest to the questioner to go to FEDEX. Our management sucks! I mean, on the surface, everything looks great. The brand has been carefully groomed to appear solid. They are going through the motions with the service, new aircraft, international destinations and whatnot. But then, last week, one of our luminaries says: "give us a bucket of money UAL and you can have the airline!" So all of our work and sacrafice and this company doesn't even have a vision for its own survival? Pathetic. Our management is putting on a hoax. The "us" in the forementioned "give us a bucket..." is them! And no, it is not that way everywhere. Lets compare this to FEDEX. Fred Smith may be a lot of things, but he is definitly not without a vision for the brand. He!!, lets compare that to anyone. Almost every other segment of the air transportation system has found a way to make money. LCC, fractionals, freight, regionals all are out performing legacies. Yet we have had very little management personel changes, and, they still pay themselves like they run a hip hop label! It is awful.

Hey Albie: Do you get a lot of questions, or do any comprehensive summary of the fundamentals on these companies you prep folks for?

To the original question: Don't let the fact that CAL is the only legacy hiring confuse you into thinking the company is doing well. Go to FEDEX.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I debated posting this but WTF. I left FedEx for Continental.

I was at FedEx for 4.5 years. Just over 2 years on the 72 panel and 2 years right seat 72. I really didn't enjoy flying cargo. I found it very boring and difficult to feel well rested. It wasn't that I couldn't do it, it just wasn't fun.

I really liked what I saw at Continental so I applied and got hired early in 2001. My bad timing gave me 3.5 years of furlough to think about my decision.

I'm back flying for CAL now and I can honestly say I made the right decision for me. Continental is a great airline and flying the line is a blast. Like someone else posted, life is too short. I really enjoy flying again. FWIW.

That is awesome...it goes to prove a point, this is all very personal. Whats good for one person can be bad for another. You have to enjoy life...and live it to the fullest no matter who gives you that opportunity. So much is being said about the stability of Fedex...the sure thing...but we are talking about life here. The moment is what counts...not how much money I will be making when i hit 60 or 65. Many of us might never get to see 60 or 65...live life to the fullest...have a backup plan no matter what...and do what you love. Work to live...not live to work. You can get your dream job today and get hit by a car tomorrow...you just never know. Thats just my 2 cents...all from a guy who is still in little CRJs, hoping to move up to another carrier but loving life every single minute...don't get me wrong, I want to work at both...but won't be miserable if life has me staying here.

 

[Echopapa]

I debated posting this but WTF. I left FedEx for Continental.

I was at FedEx for 4.5 years. Just over 2 years on the 72 panel and 2 years right seat 72. I really didn't enjoy flying cargo. I found it very boring and difficult to feel well rested. It wasn't that I couldn't do it, it just wasn't fun.

I really liked what I saw at Continental so I applied and got hired early in 2001. My bad timing gave me 3.5 years of furlough to think about my decision.

I'm back flying for CAL now and I can honestly say I made the right decision for me. Continental is a great airline and flying the line is a blast. Like someone else posted, life is too short. I really enjoy flying again. FWIW.

I gotta call BS....

4.5 at Fedex plus 3.5 on furlough...plus maybe another year of flying at CAL.....equalls....FedEx WideBody Captain.

So you seriously suggesting that you liked being furloughed for 3.5 years and now making..what...70 an hour instead of making 200+????? What do you get for your $130 an hour pay cut? Passengers? Seriously? How often do you really get to connect with your passengers? Other then...buh bye...thanks for flying with CAL. And how about the F/A...for your $130 an hour you could rent.....well I won't say any more.

Lets see....for the same money your could fly only 6 days a month as a FedEx WB Captain for your 18 Days at CAL. How bad can those 6 days be?

And lets see---10 years of retirement down the drain. At 10 years we get what...4 weeks of vacation a year? And lets not even get started on job security.

Anway, I just don't think your being honest with yourself. I know its difficult to look back on the decisions you have made in your life and think that you have made a mistake, but I just can't immagine that you really would do it all over again.

Would you really leave FedEx again in 2001?

If it helps to belivee that to sleep at night then do so...I just gotta call BS.

 

[Gearup727]

If you are really have to ask which one I think you should go to CAL. We don't need you at FedEx. We need people with a heads on their shoulders.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Call BS if you want.

Your math is correct but there is no way in hell I'd be a wide body capt. at FDX! I wouldn't even be a 727 capt. Sure I could hold it by seniority but being on the bottom of any seat at FedEx sucks. I'd be a WB f/o by choice.

I was lucky and got hired by FedEx at 26. Now I'm 35. I still have 25 - 30 years of flying left. Believe me when I say I made the right choice. I had 3.5 years to think about it and I won't say I didn't have regrets during that time. I didn't see 911 and a furlough coming. If I had my decision may have been different. I didn't enjoy being furloughed like E.P. suggests but I certainly enjoy flying for Continental a lot more than I did for FedEx. I feel healthier and enjoy life more. Making $200K a year isn't the most important thing in life to me. I will make a very comfortable living at CAL and I'll enjoy my career.

A friend at FedEx said to me one night, "When I was in the military I couldn't wait to get into an airplane, now I can't wait to get out of one." That was how I felt also. I just found out he has stomach cancer. He's only 47.

This is about personal preference. If I were making the same decision TODAY I would pick Continental.

 

[psysicx]

I don't understand how night flying lowers your life? You can still work out,eat healthy, and sleep plenty. It just depends on you. If your willing to do it. Am I missing something? Also how would you be at the bottom of the 72 on the Capt side? If there upgrading at year 4 wouldn't you have a solid line even on the Bus?

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Night flying isn't the problem. Its the changing of sleep cycles. You know, day to night to night to day. Do a google search for NASA Sleep Study.

 

[semperfido]

I don't understand how night flying lowers your life? You can still work out,eat healthy, and sleep plenty. It just depends on you. If your willing to do it. Am I missing something? Also how would you be at the bottom of the 72 on the Capt side? If there upgrading at year 4 wouldn't you have a solid line even on the Bus?

mr psysicx, i for one would be pleased if you quit that security guard job and get some educational loans. Learn to fly, get a degree, join the military, get a job at FEX and then pester some poor ole fex captain to death.

 

[psysicx]

All I'm saying is that it depends on the person. Changing sleep cycles can be hard but what affects the way we sleep is what we eat and how much excercise. I know a BP agent who works graveyards and is the healthiest person I know.

 

[Falconjet]

Options are good.

If you are really have to ask which one I think you should go to CAL. We don't need you at FedEx. We need people with a heads on their shoulders.

Gear: Come on. If you really have to respond that way you are shining a poor light on the pilot group at FedEx. It is a legit question, give your opinion but to imply that we don't need somebody at FedEx just because they have other options and are smart enough to consider them is pretty pompous. No need for that.

There are plenty of other ways to fly for a living other than FedEx. We are in good shape right now, but flying on the back side of the clock is not for everybody and some may really be adverse to it. As long as they consider all the info and make the best decision for them and their family than all the more power to them. Not everybody is a "best fit" at FedEx.

You make the best decision you can based on ALL the info (remember the name of the board? FLIGHTINFO?) and then try not to look back. I commend Fitz for sharing his experience with the board and have no problem with folks using the board to augment their job search. I wouldn't rely on it exclusively, but you can get some very helpful insight from the folks on this board.

I will add this. When people ask me about FedEx vs other carriers I try to explain the downside of the constant battle over night or day flying here. And I also tell them that my ultimate recommendation is that I passed up a class date at another carrier after a year and a half at FedEx while still in the bottom 50 of the entire seniority list, because I felt that this was a better fit for me. That is the highest endorsement I can make about our company.

Do I regret it? Sometimes, but I try not to look back. Doesn't mean that I shouldn't be at FedEx just because I considered other options.

Good luck and please let us know which way you go.

FJ

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Some of you guys are down right vicious! You remind me of some who spoke with a very similar tone and demeanor that worked for certain legacy carriers in the 80's and 90's. When their worlds were turned upside down I'm sure it was a very humbling experience especially for their large ego's, FEDEX will probably be a very stable and well paying flying job for the foreseeable future, but remember never say never in this business.

As for the question, my two cents, I would take FEDEX. I was hired at Continental in 87. A couple of months after I was hired at CAL I interviewed at FEDEX (Federal Express back then). I was so impressed, Federal Express paid for a full fare ticket from Houston to Memphis, the hotel room and told me to charge all my food to the room for the two or three days I was there. Do they still do that? I really wanted to work for Federal Express, in fact I think Frank Fato (sp?) interviewed me just to get me to stop calling.

I was so devastated to be turned down by Federal Express. However I was so impressed that they actually told me why I was turned down, something most companies would never do, I graded the highest in my interview group in the simulator and the personal interview, I apparently just missed the cutoff on the standardized testing by a small margin.

I can't tell you how many times over the past 18 1/2 I've thought about that test. If I had just applied myself a little more I would have had a far better career than I've had at Continental. That's the honest truth. Don't get me wrong I am so fortunate to be here at Continental, it's a great company and I've ended up far better than many in this business (for that I'm especially grateful). I even left Continental twice during the bad years (more bad times than good in my career at Continental) on leave of absences and worked for other carriers. Just the fact that I didn't quit (almost did) and still enjoy my original seniority number I am forever grateful.

Having just turned forty and with twenty years to go, I think sometimes maybe thirty-nine years of flying the back side of the clock wouldn't have been worth it. But then I think about all the stress and instability during the ups and downs I've been through with Continental (and there have been plenty of downs) and honestly I still regret not getting that Federal Express job. Honestly in my opinion FEDEX is a better company to work for hands down, provided you can live with all the back side of the clock flying. I know they do alot of day flying but somebody has to do all that night flying as well.

I have over the years met a few guys who left FEDEX and UPS to come too or back too (on leave of absences or furlough) Continental. It wasn't for them, they hated the back side of the clock flying. I respect them for their decision. It's a personal decision and you have to do what's best for you and your family.

If I were a betting man I'd have to say FEDEX is a lot more stable and will have better or at the very least just as good pay and benefits as Continental or whatever we're called in the years ahead. However in this business you just never know! They used to say wait until your sixty and then you will know if you made the right decisions, unfortunately some USAIR pilots can't even do that.

It's your decision and as long as you make an educated decision that is best for your own personal needs, once you make it never look back! If you do decide to come to Continental WELCOME ABOARD! We have a great company; the best part is our employees!

 

[On Your Six]

Easy - take Fedex. Continental will likely merge with another airline at some point and then all bets are off.... You never know what will happen in that case. With Fedex, you can fly both domestic or international.

Take Fedex. Let us know which one you ultimately choose. Good luck!

 

[fr8doggie]

I was so impressed, Federal Express paid for a full fare ticket from Houston to Memphis, the hotel room and told me to charge all my food to the room for the two or three days I was there. Do they still do that? I really wanted to work for Federal Express, in fact I think Frank Fato (sp?) interviewed me just to get me to stop calling.

I was so devastated to be turned down by Federal Express. However I was so impressed that they actually told me why I was turned down, something most companies would never do, I graded the highest in my interview group in the simulator and the personal interview, I apparently just missed the cutoff on the standardized testing by a small margin.

CAL

Unfortunately FedEx no longer pays for people to come interview. Same for the lodging and meals. Plus you now have to pony up $50 as part of your application.

As far as the standardized testing goes... I have heard that if you do too well on it you won't get hired either. So maybe you were too smart!

Regards,