Seniority has everything to do with longevity

MCDU

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Law Encyclopedia: Seniority

This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.


Precedence or preference in position over others similarly situated. As used, for example, with reference to job seniority, point the worker with the most years of service is first promoted within a range of jobs subject to seniority, and is the last laid off, proceeding so on down the line to the youngest in of service. The term may also refer to the priority of a lien or encumbrance.

An employee has seniority if he is among those with the most years of service at the place of employment. Such seniority entitles the employee to compete for promotion to jobs for which junior (less senior) employees would be ineligible or would receive less consideration. Traditionally, it also gives him the status of being among the last to lose his job in case of lay-offs.
In the 1984 case of Firefighters Local Union No. 1784 v. Stotts, 467 U.S. 561, 104 S. Ct. 2576, 81 L. Ed. 2d 483, the Supreme Court upheld the validity of a seniority system that protected the jobs of white firefighters with seniority at the expense of recently hired black firefighters. The fire department in Memphis, Tennessee, implemented the traditional seniority principle of "last hired, first fired." In 1981 three white firefighters who otherwise would have kept their jobs under the system were laid off for a month while minority firefighters with less seniority continued working. This change in the seniority system resulted from an injunction to enforce consent decrees that resolved equal employment opportunity cases in Memphis. The lower court fashioned the decrees to remedy the past discriminatory practices of the fire department in its hiring and promotion of minorities. The district court concluded that the seniority system was not a bona fide one under section 706(g) of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 since lay-offs made pursuant to it would have a racially discriminatory effect. The court, therefore, directed the modification of the system to increase and maintain the percentage of black firefighters. The court of appeals affirmed the revision of the seniority system but disagreed with the holding that the system was not bona fide.
On certiorari, the Supreme Court decided that the district court exceeded its authority in issuing the injunction that ultimately led to the lay-off of the senior white firefighters. The injunction was not a proper remedy. There was no finding that any of the black employees protected by the revised system had been a direct victim of discrimination, a requirement imposed by the Court in International Brotherhood of Teamsters v. United States, 431 U.S. 324, 97 S. Ct. 1843, 52 L. Ed. 2d 396 (1977). The Court, however, did not decide whether the consent decree was valid or whether the Memphis Fire Department could, on its own, protect the jobs of black firefighters at the expense of their white colleagues who had more seniority.
 

145BOSS

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USAPA v Common Sense, 431 U.S. 398, 54 (2008).

The court decides that the aforementioned definition of seniority will only apply to "East" pilots, as they will remain employed while "West" pilots with more previously stated definition of "Seniority" are furloughed.
 

cactusboy53

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Other popular definitions from the law library:

Integrity
n.
  1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
  2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
  3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.
Mediation
n.
  1. The act of mediating; intervention.
  2. The state of being mediated.
  3. Law. An attempt to bring about a peaceful settlement or compromise between disputants through the objective intervention of a neutral party.
Arbitration Award

An arbitration award (or arbitral award) is a determination on the merits by an arbitration tribunal in an arbitration, and is analogous to a judgment in a court of law. It is referred to as an 'award' even where all of the claimant's claims fail (and thus no money needs to be paid by either party....while some call it a "lottery ticket";) ), or the award is of a non-monetary nature.
 

MCDU

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Thanks DOPE.
Yeah, I still miss does PFT days at GIA. To bad you washed out. We had a lot of fun in FLL. At least you got on with Tab Airlines in Deland. You finally made the big leagues flying the mighty B 1900.

Congrats Dope. Way to go.

M
 

ACL65PILOT

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But when Longevity tops out at 12 years, it comes to QOL, and career expectations. Hence DALPA's proposal.
 

clippyrip

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......
But when Longevity tops out at 12 years, it comes to QOL, and career expectations. Hence DALPA's proposal.
Arbitrators don't surf this web board. Keep hitting on you're point though, maybe one will drop by and agree.
 

TWA Dude

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Non-trick question: If the pilot at the bottom of an airline's seniority list has been there for 15 years is he junior or senior?
 

igneousy2

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Non-trick question: If the pilot at the bottom of an airline's seniority list has been there for 15 years is he junior or senior?
Junior
 

FlyinGuy

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The second paragraph also states that "An employee has seniority if he is among those with the most years of service at the place of employment". What is the definition of that "place". Are we looking at the new combined carrier or are we looking at the history of the carriers seperately?

That is where the fundamentals are different......I believe these change dependent on where you sit!
 

MCDU

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Well, the bottom guy at United will be 10 years. Not to long ago that 1998 United hire was a lot more senior. I know CAL pilots that went from being furloughed to Captain in less then 2 years. Taking a snap shot does not take into consideration the dynamics of this industry. Looking at a furloughed CAL or DAL pilot a few years ago and looking at his position now shows how fast things change. A snap shot of DAL and CAL a few years ago would be completly different.
Try merging a Virgin America Capt. with a United Capt and tell the United 1995 pilot that he will be junior to all Virgin Capt. hired last year with no restrictions. I would love to see how those United pilots would react.

M
 

licorice

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And don't forget the follow up: If a pilot at the TOP of an airline's seniority list has has been there for 15 years is he junior or senior?
 

flyburg

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If two companies merge, don't they in essence form a new company, and hence, can the employees of the old companies claim their old seniority with the new company or do they have to workout a new seniority?

If one company buys another, wouldn't the employees of the old company not be new employees of the buying company?

In the extreme (mind you it would never happen) but if Jet blue buys United, wouldn't the united employees be new hires at jet blue?

Just curious
 

MK82Man

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Spin and propaganda from the East. Sure hope you gave that detailed Law Encyclopedia definition to your East MEC when they argued the East position in front of the arbitrator in the Fall of 2007. Mmmm, let's see, that's already decided. Who cares how you feel as an individual – the agreed to “binding arbitration” is over. See you in court. Out West, Integrity matters.

Here's a closing thought for you. Legal Briefs were filed in North Carolina this week and USAPA is arguing to have the injunction preventing the West furloughs thrown out of court. IE, USAPA and the company, have the same position … trying to prevent the WEST from stopping the "out of order" furloughs ... Your Union and the company acting together to permit the furloughs of the West Pilots. Man your UNION is a piece of work.
 
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maybe this should be forwarded to nicolau(not sure if that's spelled right, but you know who i mean), i'm sure he didn't understand the difference. silly him, he must have been a junior arbitrator at the firm.
 

Dizel8

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Huh?
Actually no, if you spent 15+ years at a stagnant airline, then you would have no seniority, in the case of the east, you could have been out on the street for a while.

Sorry, MCDU, most of us, read anyone not a East USAPA member, think your argument is similar to that which comes out the rear end of a bull at certain times.
 

Flybywire44

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USAPA v Common Sense, 431 U.S. 398, 54 (2008).

The court decides that the aforementioned definition of seniority will only apply to "East" pilots, as they will remain employed while "West" pilots with more previously stated definition of "Seniority" are furloughed.
West is being furloughed out of seniority because they're dragging out the DOH list. If it was honored the most junior would have been gone in proper order.
 

waveflyer

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all of these factors were presented-- you got the top 500 slots, then ratio'd in at almost 2 for 1 on down the list.
How that's not considered fair in this situation is unbelievable.
 

cactusboy53

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West is being furloughed out of seniority because they're dragging out the DOH list. If it was honored the most junior would have been gone in proper order.
NO. West is furloughing out of seniority because "someone" is failing to follow the Transition Agreement. "Someone else" is failing to fight for the west pilots that are senior to the "third list" pilots.

If my new "union" had integrity and/or those east pilots that voted for USAPA we would have:
1. A new contract.
2. Implementation of the new seniority list that is a product of final and binding arbitration.
3. PSA'ers spending NO overnights in PHL, and more time with their families.
4. East pilots with an additional $60K or so annually, more vacation time, 100% mechanical, 100% deadhead (your flight attendants even get 100% DH & Mech., right??), and better QOL.




 

Turtle21

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Non-trick question: If the pilot at the bottom of an airline's seniority list has been there for 15 years is he junior or senior?
Non-trick question:

If pilots are in a union is seniority defined?
 
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