Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[charlie2]

Charlie,

I don't understand their reasoning and justification when SW, a LCC pays top wages. You and I both know it is just a BS excuse.

Definitley! I even thought it was kinda clever of Kirby to say that since we are not an "industry standard airline" than we shouldn't expect an industry standard contract!

 

[Cowboy75]

Definitley! I even thought it was kinda clever of Kirby to say that since we are not an "industry standard airline" than we shouldn't expect an industry standard contract!

Obviously, don't trust Kirby. I've talked with him on the airplane and after crew news sessions. He says one thing to us, another thing to you. Just a politician walking a tight rope.

I pay attention to what they do, not what they say, Charlie.

 

[Metrojet]

Honestly, if I have to hear how great USair was 25 years ago much more I'll puke. Half the fleet is parked in the Mojave, more pilots have been furloughed from there over the years than populate all of Southwest Airlines. US Air has been a thrice BK shizzhole since 1989!!

It's nearly 2011!!:laugh:

Why did all those morons keep accepting recall after being furloughed multiple times?

becket -

"America West operated in bankruptcy from 1991 to 1994. As part of its restructuring, the employee stock became worthless, the Hawaii and Nagoya routes were scrapped (and the 747s sold), and the airline's fleet was heavily pared down to 87 aircraft"

Nothing new there - talk about living in the past - lets move on

Metrojet

 

[Cowboy75]

becket -

Nothing new there - talk about living in the past - lets move on

Metrojet

Metro,

Obviously, we are at a point where the courts are going to be making decisions for us. You and I now we are in our trenches until a decision that is actuallly "binding" is handed down which can't be circumvented.

I'll be first to come out of my trench when that happens.

I will keep reminding you of our beer bet until then.:beer:

 

[Cowboy75]

Definitley! I even thought it was kinda clever of Kirby to say that since we are not an "industry standard airline" than we shouldn't expect an industry standard contract!

Charlie, Some people are growing frustrated with Kirby.

Example:

Dear Scott:
I just finished watching the latest PHX Crew News, and frankly I am a little puzzled by some of your answers during the Q&A session. It would seem there is a major disconnect from reality regarding the Final and Binding Arbitration decision of George Nicolau, and I offer some observations and a few questions please. The first issue is NEUTRALITY. You are correct that both MEC’s asked for and received neutrality from the company during the process that ended in Binding Arbitration. It was, and remains, an arbitration process signed onto by both East and West pilots through their respective MECs. In spite of knowingly and willingly signing that agreement, the East has been less than honorable in keeping that agreement by refusing to be held to the results. However, despite the dishonorable acts of the East pilots, the issue of company neutrality ended the day the arbitrated list was delivered and accepted by the company. The request for neutrality was a request to protect the sanctity of the PROCESS. You indicate during the Q&A that your opinion has, from week one, been the need for compromise. That statement raises a question. If you (the company) should win the current arbitration concerning the LOA93 “snap-back”, we can reasonably assume that the East pilots will be upset. Can we expect then to see you (the company) approach the East Pilots and offer compromise?” Conversely, if you (the company) should lose that arbitration, binding you to huge amounts of salary increases and back pay for the East Pilots, can we expect you (the company) to dodge the decision by reorganizing US Airways under a different name and operating certificate? It caused me a great deal of discomfort to watch you parse words, using ambiguity to camouflage the obvious. You maintain that a “second opinion” is out there concerning this quagmire. I respectfully disagree. The “second opinion” you refer to is simply an attempt by USAPA to achieve a second bite at the apple -- something they clearly are not entitled to under the TA, or the signed agreement to enter into Binding Arbitration. This is not, as you profess, a “point of law,” but rather a matter of HONOR -- something that I would expect a USAFA graduate to understand and uphold. HONOR is not negotiable, and having once taken the oath “I will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor will I tolerate those among us who do” you know that. While I do not believe you to be a liar, a cheat, or a thief….I seriously question your tolerance of those among us who lie, cheat, and attempt to steal what is rightfully not theirs. The Tolerance clause of that oath does in fact include intent. I suspect you know that too. You indicated during the Q&A that your (the company’s) request for Declaratory Judgment would yield one of two answers. Either you (the company) will be bound to the arbitrated list vis-à-vis the Transition Agreement (signed by all three parties), or you (the company) will be free to entertain the “date of hire” concept preferred by the dishonorable people who formed and run USAPA. I suggest there is a third possibility. Approximately 18 months ago, you (the company) appealed to Judge Wake to not interfere in the running of your business, which resulted in you (the company) being excused from the Addington case (with restriction). With no resolution of the problem since that time, you (the company) are now asking the court system to reenter the fray and do what you have been unable, or unwilling, to do. I believe it likely now that the Federal Judge will NOT give you a peek under the rug at all; instead, telling you to “run your business and make some decisions.” I also believe the wrong decision will land you (the company) back in Federal Court as the defendant under less than optimistic circumstances -- and I believe you know that too. Your parsing of the difference between “accepting” the Arbitrated List, and “implementing” that list…was shallow sir. The “acceptance” was your agreed to portion of the Transition Agreement. The resulting implementation of that list through the CBA is your DUTY to both parties without qualification. Admittedly the dual ratification clause that was in place when the list was derived could have been problematic. But that ratification process no longer exists, and continuing to crouch behind that perception is disingenuous at best. Single ratification of a viable (for both company and pilots) CBA is not nearly as problematic, and could easily pass with the Nicolau section 22, if it otherwise provides industry standard improvements over the current East LOA93, and former AWA CBA. I once again, gently, remind you of those days at USAFA when HONOR and INTEGRITY were your constant companions. You are the Commander, and it is your sole responsibility to set the bar of behavior within this organization, and to hold those who refuse to stand to that bar accountable for their dereliction.

Respectfully,
Name withheld

 

[St. Nic]

YOu west pilots are pathetic. AN embarrassment to the industry. GO cry somehwere else. Give it a rest Cowboy- DOH is here to stay along with snapbacks. Enjoy stagnation and working for substandard pay- the east is about to get a HUGE raise. We are laughing all the way to the bank! Now go be a good union pilot LOL!!

 

[Hvy]

YOu west pilots are pathetic. AN embarrassment to the industry. GO cry somehwere else. Give it a rest Cowboy- DOH is here to stay along with snapbacks. Enjoy stagnation and working for substandard pay- the east is about to get a HUGE raise. We are laughing all the way to the bank! Now go be a good union pilot LOL!!

The west guys are pathetic? That doesn't seem to be the consensus around the industry.

 

[St. Nic]

You wet guys are going to get a real education shortly in INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. Baptiste and Wilder called this one long ago and they are going to be absolutely proven right. Wake was the first one to get his hand slapped, others coming soon

 

[Hvy]

YOu west pilots are pathetic. AN embarrassment to the industry. GO cry somehwere else. Give it a rest Cowboy- DOH is here to stay along with snapbacks. Enjoy stagnation and working for substandard pay- the east is about to get a HUGE raise. We are laughing all the way to the bank! Now go be a good union pilot LOL!!

Most of us are laughing at you right here in front of our computers.

 

[Cowboy75]

You wet guys are going to get a real education shortly in INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. Baptiste and Wilder called this one long ago and they are going to be absolutely proven right. Wake was the first one to get his hand slapped, others coming soon

I'm not concerned about YOUR Union. I'll keep funding the union which represents my interests. My union has members who are fairly represented. A union of pilots who expect to be fairly represented by it's bargaining agent.

We are tired of your fake union and it's internal affairs. We get it, Your Union represents some US Airways pilots.

Example: (From USAPA's BPR meeting update 10-1-10)

NAC member Mark Burdick recently wrote a letter in which he expressed frustration with his position as the only West pilot on the Committee. For review, the letter was read aloud by President Mike Cleary. Chairman DiOrio, Jeff Davis, the Officers and several board members questioned Mark about the letter, its intent, its actual origin and, most importantly, its distribution. After several rounds of questioning, the BPR learned that this letter was distributed not only to them, but to the Company and, finally, to mediator Terri Brown.
President Mike Cleary spoke directly and made clear that Mark's democratic rights to free speech were absolutely going to be protected, but that his actions were a direct violation of his charge as a committee member and that they subverted the goals and objectives of his committee.
Extensive discussion followed, with the Board querying both Mark and the PHX Reps on to whom the letter was sent (Company, mediator, Board, Officers), failure to follow Board direction and the NAC's support of current and improved West contract provisions.
The Board also discussed items not related to the letter, including grievance backlogs and various possible methodologies to clear the backlog.
A resolution was brought forward by the PHX domicile representatives to add an additional West member to the NAC and requiring the committee to have co-chairmen, one East and one West. After the initial motion was ruled out of order due to a violation of the C&BLs, the motion was reworded and brought forward again. A lengthy, comprehensive discussion ensued, with the proponents of the measure arguing, among other things, that the lack of this addition would leave the West’s interests inadequately represented.
Those speaking against the resolution pointed out, among other things, that the proponents were unable to present any credible example of instances where West contractual issues were not receiving full consideration. They also pointed to the fact that the current West NAC member has made absolutely no complaints about consideration of West issues prior to two weeks ago, having been on the committee for nearly a year and a half.
After this lengthy debate, the BPR voted, with the measure failing 3 for and 8 against.

 

[jbDC9]

YOu west pilots are pathetic. AN embarrassment to the industry. GO cry somehwere else. Give it a rest Cowboy- DOH is here to stay along with snapbacks. Enjoy stagnation and working for substandard pay- the east is about to get a HUGE raise. We are laughing all the way to the bank! Now go be a good union pilot LOL!!

Wow. Just... wow. The biggest idiot on this board (an Eastie no less) calling the AWA guys pathetic and an embarrassment? Crazy.

Like Hvy said, we're laughing at you you freakin' moron.

 

[Cowboy75]

Hey Nic,

You are getting trounced. How about some facts to back up your opinions. You are not doing a very good job pleading your case other than flaming and creating a smoking hole for yourself. :laugh:

 

[Metrojet]

Metro,

Obviously, we are at a point where the courts are going to be making decisions for us. You and I now we are in our trenches until a decision that is actuallly "binding" is handed down which can't be circumvented.

I'll be first to come out of my trench when that happens.

I will keep reminding you of our beer bet until then.:beer:

Cowboy -

Yes Sir -That beer bet is still on!

Metrojet -

 

[Cowboy75]

Cowboy -

Yes Sir -That beer bet is still on!

Metrojet -

Shiner Bock on my side of the table. What's your poison?

Cheers

 

[Cowboy75]

You wet guys are going to get a real education shortly in INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS.

You wet guys? If you'd stop spewin, maybe we would not be so wet. uke: